this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2025
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Apple
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You're ignoring all of the measures Apple implementatedin the 10 years since those Snowden leaks.
You're also making a baseless claims that Apple knowingly participated with the NSA, which Apple denies indicating it was an inside threat actor working directly with the NSA without Apple's knowledge.
Some data is stored in other providers clouds, Amazon and Google specifically and those clouds are the sources that were compromised. Apple has added end to end encryption to mitigate that.
For their own cloud services, the measures Apple goes to secure their servers is not trivial. They have employed strict chain of custody and it's why they call out services that do their off device processes using Apple hardware.
Apple is working to build out their own cloud but anyone with basic knowledge understands that the hardware they manufacture isn't the type used by cloud providers.
The changes in how containers work on Mac OS is because of their own internal work on using their own hardware for containers that are being used to expand their internal cloud because even Apple with their billion dollar contracts with built in penalities doesn't trust Google.
Knowing what I know, I put Google dead last when it comes to my data. Microsoft and Amazon are several magnitudes more trustworthy and I don't trust them either because they openly work with government agencies.
But sure, keep using Android because Apple isn't perfect. Google appreciates you're choosing to feed their algorithms directly.
Their code isn't closed.
Their devices are locked tight for security reasons. You can't have it both ways on that one.
Your rebuttal is basically, nuh-on.
Threads like this remind me of the Asimov quote, that describes such rebuttals as, "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
Anti-intellectualism is believing how the world works rather than bothering with a always expanding working theory as to how the world truely works.
A lazy approach that bathes one in false comfort by confirming all their biases.
A world view that cumulates into an air of superiority that is paper thin.
Some of the code is literally open sourced and available in public repositories. The rest requires one be a security researcher.
The comfort is in choosing android because they are both the same. This is a decision based on emotion rather than logic.
I'm going to hastily dissect the situation and how I've come to this conclusion. Mostly for my own sake. I do not expect you to accept any of what I am going to say.
The comfort I am describing is starts by first observing the location of this discussion, an Apple enthusiast group.
Further observation indicates a persistent attack posture towards the ideals of the group.
This being an enthusatist geoup, it's unlikely you'll convince anyone here. You also aren't suggesting an alternative.
When your assertions are challenged you shift and twist rather than addresssing the challenges indicating you are not not interested in understanding or engaging with the group in fruitful discussion.
At this point it is safe to assume your chosen platform is Android.
Android exfiltrates data, you and are I not arguing otherwise.
Your claim is you want to control your data but your chosen platform does not reflect this. This indicates your decision is not based on logic.
Because you are not engaging with this group to expand your understanding of why others choose Apple not to offer alternatives but instead to question other's decisions. From this one can presume this is for personal validation.
A person does not need to internally validate their logical decisions. The logic is self validating.
People do need to validate their emotional decisions. All indication is that this is why you are in this thread; emotional validation.
You seek comfort in your choice to be in your own words, "spied on and manipulated." in the face of alternatives.
At no point was this discussion about anything more than your desire for emotional validation. This group's very existence invalidated your emotions and comelled a response.
I thank you for helping with deepening thoughts I've been developing I bid you a good day.
There is absolutely a lesser of two evils here
Not one of the two, but each to their own.
Degoogled android is not one of Apple and Google
So in an apple enthusiast community, you're pitching degoogled android?
Asked what?
Nice edit. Nah, I didn't ask anything mate
Probably for the best because “You literally asked” has a very specific meaning, which was entirely incorrect here.
To change the goalposts yeah? I make a flippant comment about one approach to data harvesting being more exhaustive than another and you eventually say “yeah but not degoogled Android”? Nobody was talking about that. As I say, each to their own, I’m sure degoogled Android is great for the comparatively few that use it, but the initial post I replied to just specified Android. Of the two companies - Google and Apple - I know which one I’m more likely to trust with my data.
This comment was reported but I didn't remove it because I think it's quite mild, but this line is unnecessary:
Please refrain from personal attacks.
Okay mate 😂
Not once have I questioned the viability of a degoogled android device.
This is literally an apple enthusiast community. I'm not sure what you're expecting, or are you just here to troll with the last statement?
As well as the degoogled Android goalpost, I know.
It’s all choice at the end of the day, isn’t it. I choose Apple for a variety of reasons, and they’ve championed privacy regularly in recent years. Whether we choose to believe the claims, well that’s up to the consumer isn’t it. One thing’s for sure, Google definitely don’t make the same claims.
“The same claims”
No but it seems like being deliberately obtuse is necessary for your point to have validity.
Thought I’d match your vibe
Have I said anything that’s untrue? Or am I just obliged to agree with you? You dismissed Clent’s comment because “Apple’s claims are irrelevant”, so even if they were doing exactly what they say, you wouldn’t accept it. There’s literally no point to this conversation beyond drawing out a disagreement where neither person can categorically be proven correct.
It's not untrue, it's that you believe it's untrue.
Unless of course you're able to prove that Apple and Google are currently the same with respect to the data they harvest.
It doesn't exist because I haven't mentioned it? 😂
I'm not here to do your research for you.
😂 by the very nature of your own point regarding their opacity, you can't defend your claim that what I've said is untrue.
You can't say "we don't know, so you're wrong".
Well, maybe you can, but as I say, you have to be obtuse to do it.
Yes you did, you said both systems are opaque so I can't have "facts" for you.
So equally, you don't have any to back up your claims either. In fact you went so far as to dismiss a comment by another user where you stated that you're ignoring Apple's claims because they can't prove it because their code is closed. So what's the point?
If the facts someone presents to you can be dismissed by you because you refuse to believe it, then me echoing them won't make any difference will it?
And yet you can happily claim the opposite and say what I'm saying is untrue, with equally as few facts.
You want me to prove my claim that Apple harvests less data, but you haven't got any proof of your claim that they collect the same as Google. All while saying that because the system is opaque that it can't be proved.
This entire conversation is absurd.