this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2025
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Hey all. I'd like to open an official discussion regarding the upturning of the prior Hexbear party line on an :israel-cool: emote proper with the unambiguous Zionist flag.
I want to preface this by saying this is not in a 'ceding the issue' way. Over the past year I've been trying to engage in self-crit w/rt the chauvinism I've internalized growing up in a Liberal Zionist household, and my personal viewpoint on it did a 180 some months back, so I want to reopen this discussion proper in my personal capacities as Self-Appointed Emote Czar.
The reason it's taken long enough beyond that is prior to July, I was essentially half-engaged with the site in order to finish out my degree. After that, it’s been mostly inertia of confirming with the admins and other /c/Judaism mods, as well as having to be rigorous about my job search personally giving me little free time to coordinate this.
I do not want to center myself in this conversation more than I inadvertently already have, so I will leave my own opinion on the issue as a comment rather than explaining further here.
The consensus we've roughly come to is to open up the discussion in an official manner for a day or so. After that, I'll weigh the discussion in an entirely vibes-based manner (sorry Dean Norris enjoyers) and we'll alter Hexbear party line on it accordingly.
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I vote in favor of the real flag.
I want to commend OP for your work to make the site more fun for us all, and for providing us with this example of self reflection and comradely discussion around challenging and painful topics. You are showing the type of communication ability that many here could learn from, particularly as leftists and organizers.
I also think z poster should be unbanned but that's probably a topic for a different thread. I don't think z poster is a wrecker, they are clearly a leftist and a hardline anti imperialist and they are no more abrasive than the people they got into it with
I agree and wasn't actually aware they had a bunch of ban evasion alts, but that's a topic for another thread.
it's cop behaviour to keep someone around then arrest them on charges you were ignoring the moment you hate them.
Pretty sure the vast majority, if not all of his bans, basically go back to this one struggle session.
If that's true then honestly wtf are we doing here? Unban them
No they are not
What other reasons? Or is this just the argument again about ban evasion?
Lol thanks for the lookups. I can't remember any of their names and couldn't figure out the best way to search for myself
The other reasons are in the mod log dm harrament and hostility 3 years ago, the emote struggle sess is only 2 years old
Emote struggle session is 4-5 years old.
It even goes back to the old sub iirc.
I'm pretty sure Iz being used as a dog whistle like that is a holdover meme from avoiding the ire of reddit admins back in the day.
Didn't know about this. I've been around since before then but didn't follow individuals or drama much til the past year or year and a half or so when I started commenting more instead of lurking. So if you can give more info, I think that'd be appreciated
Well, ban evasion alts is a different story, though, right?
If the original bans were unjust and it's a user who wants to participate in this community because there are almost no alternatives, it seems cruel to use them trying to come back to the place they want to be as an excuse to ban them.
Big if, because that isn't the case, they've got a long history of violating other rules and getting a slap on the wrist or a comm ban or a temp ban. Across probably a dozen different accounts, at least a half dozen.
yeah there is definitely a point where those things become problems too but on the other hand this thread alone has made me understand how a person on hexbear could get jokerfied from the left
There's an element of that in every struggle session, I think. It's exhausting. Because the form of the struggle session doesn't really work in frictionless online plane where nobody is accountable to anybody and everyone just gets rewarded for riling each other up and getting unhingedly angry.
Almost no struggle session on this site has ever been productive, even those that ended in the "right" side "winning".^[1]. IRL you can have a baseline level of trust in your comrades, and that you are all committed to mostly the same basic principles, and then build constructively from that basis. But online people just go straight to screaming at each other pretty fast, most people have no lasting identity or accountability, and we've decided that berating eachother at the slightest provocation is fine because to do otherwise is "tone policing". And yeah, tone-policing can be an issue, but sheer animosity does undermine the effectiveness of the struggle session. It just makes everyone involved defensive and brings out the worst in them. Maybe not all the same principles from IRL can be used online, but certainly we can do better than this. People would do well to read Constructive Criticism: A Handbook ^[2] and not just operate based on vibes and the norms of the rest of the internet.
[1]:
This isn't to say our community hasn't grown in positive ways. But during struggle sessions particularly, very few people are converted, and many people, potential comrades, are shed from the community due to hostility (some deservedly, but many not). The bulk of the convincing and understanding happens in the more comradely discussions before and after a struggle sesh. This isn't to say we should tolerate the whinging of people who do not share our fundamental convictions or refuse to be comradely themselves, but I see convincing people of the correctness of our ideas as an investment of effort and love into fellow comrades, and a recognition of their potential, and hostility and berating as fundamentally saying they are not worth our effort. Its no one person's responsibility to baby step people here into more correct views, but for those with the patience to do so, it is usually a worthwhile endeavor, and uncomradely hostility makes it much harder to do.[2]:
One relevant section: