[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing] I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH
[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing] Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG
[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing] Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS
[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]
[a confused nazi asks] Why… why are they still arguing?
No. I've seen marxist-leninists, maoists, and anyone in that area of thought arguing the following:
If you think ANY of those arguments are valid for leftism, then I'm sorry, but I don't want you around me.
I have literally never run into anyone in real life who says any of these as any form of communist, other than 'communist' parties full of pensioners or maga communists.
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I have run into people saying things like this:
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Anarchism has never been tried successfully
Anarchists are all children who don’t know better
and I'll push back on it, but it's not a monolith, Marxists with decent enough social skills to not insult allies do exist
Animal farm is propaganda, by a social democrat with a clear agenda.
Believe it or not, these are almost never relevant to actual organizing work:
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Real life marxists tend to be okay, I don't mind them. But, online those people literally try to dominate ALL discourse in leftism to the point where every single contact people have with leftists is someone who believes those things unironically.
No, you're just strawmanning
They never said RL. That is a very specific and self aware cop-out. You know as well as we do, the ml servers are known for this for good reason.
Being fully transparent .world has their shit heads too. As do most other servers. However to the best of my knowledge they tend not to be administrators etc. 🤷♂️
My original comment at the start of this thread was:
This is in a thread about getting murdered IRL by fascists while bickering. I think real life is relevant.
I then get the litany of online behaviors that people engage in, including a lot of stuff that has no basis in reality outside of trolls and crypto-fascists.
The shit I get from some people because of what instance I happen to use is literally the thing depicted in the comic though:
At some point actually fighting fascism requires realizing that it's a lot easier to work with communists and anarchists despite whatever disagreements you have, because as different ideologically as we may be, that distinction doesn't matter to our enemies.
First I agree that marxists are generally chill it's the hyphenated ones that typically are not. And because we can agree on that. I think we should be able to agree that they aren't who is being pictured above in the comic.
Perhaps it was misunderstanding, perhaps it was talking past each other. Either way fair enough.
Others get the same treatment. I can count plenty of times where I've been told similar because I post from a .world domain. The difference being, of course correct me if I am wrong. That our administrators don't tend to be as problematic. It isn't 2019 anymore. ML isn't the only server. If you are focused on organization and outreach. Maybe it's worth considering finding a new instance that would would help in fostering that.
As I syndicist I absolutely gave some thought about joining an instance that better reflected my sensibilities. Though some recent events have definitely made me reconsider on that. I honestly think I'm happy an a much more diverse platform. Even if on the fediverse our diversity is pretty homogenic.
I'm not trying to be glib, I don't think any instances are good for that, I use other platforms with more reach for that sort of thing.
I come here because I can see what other anarchists and Marxists are saying about the news and shoot the shit with them. Plus I can access the largest trans instances from here, I don't really have any ambitions beyond that.
Fair enough. I can do that as well. Just without all the domain baggage. And if it is something that bothers you. It's something to look at. Something I saw you actually cop to elsewhere on the topic.
I mean while it is annoying getting called a red fascist out of pure tribal reaction, I'm also pretty stubborn when it comes to peer pressure
Heh I think that describes most of us on the fediverse and why we are the way we are.
Yeah, certainly no baggage on .world...
"you're TRIGGERED lol!"
Modern democrats really are just the Republicans of ten years ago.
You are wrong, one hundred percent wrong. But you already know that the administrators of .world are Zionist liberals, but you don't care because you agree with them.
Is possible, just maybe, that you've been talking to trolls posing as communists, rather than actual communists? Because that's what it sounds like.
Are you saying nutomic is a troll?
Most communist don't identify as that because of the way leninist and Maoist have soiled it.
I don't want to put you out, but if you've got actual links to him saying dodgy stuff, then please could you show me?
I'm about ten minutes into reading through his Reddit comments and he's not even said anything political. One of the most recent comments was him replying to an accusation of creating the federated wiki alternative for right-wing purposes, which is confusing me even more.
He's specifically telling people which instances they can join that block lemmygrad.
He doesn't seem that extreme. If you can provide something, it'd really be appreciated, because from looking at his posts so far, he seems a nice enough guy.
Edit - never mind, I think I've found what you're referring to. I'll look through them properly in a little bit.
I'm not so focused to keep lists Etc myself. However if you are interested in learning a bit more about it all. There are actually a few communities dedicated to it. Don't just take anything there as gospel though. Critical thinking is always good to employ. And even then it might just come down to who you decide you want to believe. However massive amounts of hypocritical behavior to me would indicate less trustworthiness.
Meanwhileongrad has a lot of it. Just bear in mind. Where people will stand is often more about what they do than even what they say.
Appreciate the info! Thank you.
Anytime. And as to your edit on the previous message always. Never just assume things to be true.
So no, he didn't say that, you're just lying
Nutomic has not said those things: now you're straight up lying to justify left punching.
Those people were not being ironic, no. I think it's just a phenomenon that is excessively more common amongst internet MLs. Real life MLs are okay for the most part. Internet MLs are pretty much a cult that will try to take over ANY leftist community or be the dominant form of leftist discourse through any means necessary and will excessively push propaganda from literal fascists because they happen to be against liberals.
All I'm saying is that an embarrassing amount of leftists are terminally online and unable to do anything to try to push leftism other than argue with liberals online and spout hate towards those they see as "betraying" leftism. Those people don't actually do any organization IRL, which to me is a blessing... but sometimes that doesn't work. Brazil, and by extension all of South America, has a very bad problem with MLs dominating online AND IRL discourse, making it hard for other forms of leftism to be considered or even debated in good faith.
"those people" aren't real, you just made them up so you can punch left
Lol. Please present a single example of someone actually holding these views. This is the most obviously nonsense strawman in history, but everyone here will upvote it anyway because it lets them punch left.
One of the Lemmy Devs was saying that being transgender was promoted by the bourgeois
https://lemmy.ca/post/26211900
Now do the rest
This is literal ruling class propaganda. No Marxist or Marxist-Leninist is against LGBT, thinks Nazis or nationalism has a point, claims Putin is leftist, etc.
Stop trying to stir division, astroturf.
How about I talk about every time Marxist-Leninists betrayed other leftists and executed them? It's an extensive fucking list.
Also, just look it up. You will find examples of what I said within minutes. But if you wanna be lazy, go ahead.
You're just an astroturf. You are what's a stop to any temporary left unity, not those who you accuse with ridiculous strawmen.
I'm not uniting with people who will kill me later. We've done that multiple times. Your ilk always betrays us.
Saying this while shaking hand with Hitler, voting for the Nazi's enabling act.
"Heh I've really shown those socialists this time."
Sounds like you're the one betraying us
Wow, literally "I have already depicted you as a soyjack"