this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2025
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There's a reform of traffic laws where I live. A major talking point is that the penalties for offences will follow a scaling system, where if you keep committing them, the penalty increases. Penalties scale based on the severity of the crime. For example, parking on an illegal spot where you block public transport will net you a 350€ fine plus confiscation of your license for 70 days. Meanwhile, driving with over 1.1 g/l of alcohol in your blood will result in a 1200€ fine, losing your license for 180 days, plus 2 months to 5 years of prison time. If you get caught for that a second time, you lose your license for 7 years, and 10 more years if you do it a third time.

Some listed offences:

  • Not respecting a stop sign

  • Driving 50km/h over the limit

  • Parking on a spot reserved for people with special needs

  • Driving on a bus lane

  • Using your phone while driving

  • Driving under the influence (higher BAC leads to a higher fine)

  • Driving without a seat belt (cars) or helmet (motorcycles)

Also, the default speed limit in residential areas will decrease to 30 km/h from 50 km/h, except in roads with at least two lanes per direction (or two lanes for one-way streets).

Yesterday, while walking, I saw a poster from an anarchist group bashing these reforms, saying that the new traffic laws are only focused on penalties and that the police will only enforce them on poor people. I will also quote one of their closing statements: "it's true that if the traffic laws were to be enforced for even some hours, cities would 'freeze'"

I hadn't given much thought to the changes to the laws, with my general idea being that they were a good change, but the poster got me thinking. Of course, penalties like these will disproportionately target poor people. Also, as leftists, we should be weary of excessively penalizing some crimes, focusing on the root cause instead. Year-long sentences for stealing food will not decrease similar thefts, but feeding people will.

However, there are no material conditions that cause someone to ignore a stop sign, scroll TikTok while waiting for the traffic lights, speak on the phone while driving or driving without a seat belt. At best you can make contrived arguments about people being on a rush to get to their jobs, but that's what it is; a contrived argument that probably applies to less than 1% of the offenses.

Drunk driving is also a big issue. I acknowledge that some people feel forced to do it because of the lack of good nightly public transport. However, no one is forcing them to drink over the limit and drive back, or stay up so late that they can't catch public transport on their way home, or not have a designated driver. Is wanting to have fun in a specific way a valid argument for risking your life, and worse, risking the life of other innocent bystanders?

Finally, their closing statement makes them sound like people that break traffic laws because "they know better" or "it's better this way" even when it's not and they're excessively selfish. It feels weird to side with the increased penalties and surveillance, but I've come to believe it is a broken clock moment.

What do you think?

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[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

a) fines that do not scale with at least income if not net wealth are only really punishing for the poor and a mere nuisance for the rich

b) poor people are much more likely to be stopped and charged by police than rich and influential people; poor people also have to drive themselves more as they can't afford to have others do the driving for them

c) when a charge goes to court only the well off can really engage in a legal battle; poor people have neither the means nor the time to engage with the justice system, so they very often end up not even fighting the charges

Unless you solve these issues first no amount of reform is going to fix the underlying problem.

[–] Horse@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 16 hours ago

fines that do not scale with at least income if not net wealth are only really punishing for the poor and a mere nuisance for the rich

"you can't park there, it's on a sidewalk!"

"yes i can, it just costs 200 dollars"

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I would argue that even if they do scale with income, if I have 2 billion dollars 10% if my total worth would hardly be noticable. while if I have 200 that could still cripple me.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)