obviously, I doubt Rutte was expecting this message to be shared. If he wasn't a complete moron and actually doing this just to stroke his own ego, I'd actually give Donald props for leaking it, as Rutte kissing Donald's ass makes him look terrible, and more broadly makes the European parts of NATO look terrible.

I imagine Rutte's intent is to stroke Trump's ego to try and keep him interested in NATO, but I feel like that's a fool's errand. Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone else but himself. This new agreement, with NATO signatories needing to commit 5% of their GDP, feels like a grift for the benefit of U.S. defense contractors. The U.S. cannot be trusted to actually honor their agreements anymore, so why pay more into their alliance? Is Europe really that scared of further Russian aggression?

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 31 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Europeans online think that Rutte is 'masterfully manipulating' Trump by talking to him like a 5 year old and are extremely proud of this.

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

3d chess move by Rutte, kissing Trump ass and conceding his demands, a masterful move indeed.

[–] folaht@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

What else would or should Rutte have done?

His allegiance is with the liberal party,
without the progressive party and without the social liberal party.
There's some people flocking to his party these days thinking that liberal party
must mean left-wing through US cultural osmosis, but they remain pro-atlanticist and right-wing.

[–] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 13 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Well Rutte's job is basically to keep NATO together, can't blame him for trying. Personally I would not be sad if NATO chucked the US and told them to pack their bases all around Europe and go home. But I understand Rutte's position.

[–] folaht@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Rutte is trans-atlanticist. These people will do anything to keep the peace with the US.
They're Joshua Wongers with diplomatic talent.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'd love it if that happened, but that would also mean the dissolution of NATO, so I don't see why NATO would motion to kill itself voluntarily.

[–] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

NATO could very well exist without the US in it. It's not like the other members can trust the US to help at this point.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

NATO with 0 US arms or millitary power wouldn't be nearly as effective. The EU could have its own treaty, but it would be entirely limited in capability.

[–] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Certainly, it would be more limited in capability on paper, but now they have a big member who likes bossing the others around and is also a huge liability. Losing that would be a serious win.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The US has always been at the helm of NATO. The US Empire is the reason NATO exists, the EU is thoroughly vassalized and subservient to the US. If the US was kicked out of NATO (lol), NATO would crumble, and the EU would be forced to either trade more with Russia or China to make up for the utter loss of their position in the western imperial system. The EU cannot stand on its own, it depends on imperialism, and currently relies on the US sphere of influence to perpetuate itself.

[–] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah yeah, US exceptionalism much? You would be surprised how little Europe depends on the US, but as you imply, it's become an abusive relationship that Europe needs to get out. Russia is no alternative for the US. The reason Europe needs to sever ties with the US is that it has become too much like Russia. China? Yes Europe does a lot of business with China already, that is not about to change.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The EU is fully dependent on the modern system of US Imperialism. They move in lock-step with US interests at a geopolitical level. This isn't US exceptionalism, the US is the global Hegemon but at the same time it's also decaying and dying. The US is not at all like Russia, the US depends entirely on international exploitation while Russia depends on internal exploitation and their own domestic production.

[–] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I think you vastly overestimate the imporance of the US. And yes recently, with Trump the US is turning in on itself to become more like Russia. It breaks with allies, alienates trading partners and isolates and inpoverishes its own population. Its position as a hegemon is crumbling to dust rapidly.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

The US is still the hegemon, and unlike Russia it doesn't have a developed industrial base, Russia does relatively fine just trading with its own trading partners, but the US is decaying rapidly as a consequence of the failings of imperialism. The EU isn't far behind the US either in a race to crumbling.

[–] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

My Guy, you really don't have any idea.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 12 hours ago

I do, actually.

[–] JillyB@beehaw.org 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

This new agreement, with NATO signatories needing to commit 5% of their GDP, feels like a grift for the benefit of U.S. defense contractors. The U.S. cannot be trusted to actually honor their agreements anymore, so why pay more into their alliance? Is Europe really that scared of further Russian aggression?

They're massively investing in European defense industry, not just buying more from the US. They are scared of Russian aggression and they are scared the US will not honor NATO agreements which is why they're committing so hard to defense spending. Also, I believe it's 3.5% for military and 1.5% for infrastructure.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

False. Europe is spending big money on American weapons. The independence story was only an excuse to get more money.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-defence-firms-chase-european-military-spending-wave-2025-06-18/

As for the Russia story, nice to see Red Scare works as good as in America when they dismantled their healthcare for the military industrial complex.

[–] JillyB@beehaw.org 10 points 2 days ago

They are also spending big on domestic arms production. France will be a big winner out of this since they've long valued independent military arms production and the rest of Europe will want to buy French stuff (yes along with American stuff) while they get their arms production up and running. South Korea is also a big arms supplier internationally.

The reduction in US support for NATO is largely part of a pivot to focusing on Taiwan and China. The US military industry would love it if the US focused on both and kept cozy relations with europe. I'm sure they're happy with the whole world increasing defense spending amid rising tensions, but they aren't happy about the US scaring away customers. I hate how involved the US military is globally but acting like Trump is some mastermind of American imperialism is reductive and giving him too much credit. The thought that Europe shouldn't be worried about Russia (the ones currently invading a European country) is bonkers.