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this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2025
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This person very clearly understands what is happening, hence the second sentence. It's just phrased in a way to not immediately cause magas to engage in their rejecting of reality at the site of criticism.
They are quite literally in a cult.
The cognitive dissonance underlying their worldview is being exposed and demonstrated, and they are very obviously unable to fully reconcile basic logic and empirical reality with the idea that dear leader is a madman, and that they are cult thralls of a madman, and that he is doing exactly what he said he would do, and that they are fools for trusting in him.
Delusional cult members do not have coherent, consistent worldviews, they are full of contradictions, which are usually squelched by thought terminating cliches, highly emotional motivated reasoning (ie, 'faith'), having your own identity and personality be heavily intertwined with and dependant on the cult.
They would have to be deprogrammed like former Heavens Gate cult members or something similar.
Their minds will likely never function reasonably again. While some may be able to pull themselves out of it, similar to someone raised in a fundamentalist setting who deconverts via thorough critical skepticism... most of them are not capable of that, and will instead seek to blame shift to protect their own egos.
... Thats all to say, this person seemingly logically putting it together... but also not accepting their own logic?
This is quite normal for a cult member.
Lots and lots of cults do lots and lots of social conditioning to make the cult member accept or ignore or deflect from any objective criticisms.
That is basically what all religious apologetics is, after all.
There's been studies that far right fascist supports have a smaller "empathy" section to their brain. You have to know how to approach soaking to someone like that. They only care about stuff when it affects them. In order to reach these people, you need to highlight that these things ARE hurting them, and it will continue to get worse.
You are describing most of my family.
I have degrees in Econ and Poli Sci.
I explained everything to them, how it would hurt them, in detail, for years.
Didn't work.
I now live many states away from them, seeing as the last time I talked to my dad he was full QAnon bonkers, and also building ghost guns (untraceable AR 15s and AR 18s) in his garage.
Logic doesn't work when too much of their personal identity is wrapped into the cult identity.
I think more people need to approach it like this. Human's minds are designed to think with their group and resistant to change. If you actually want to change minds, insults and accusations will immediately put them into fight mode and they will defend their ideology. But if you don't attack their ideals and approach in a friendly kind of way, it will lead them to questioning their leader's choices. It's hard, I know. Their leader has made some shoot-themselves-in-the-foot choices and makes their conviction an easy target to attack. Insults and attacks may even be a way of letting off steam, but if you actually want change, it has to be a smart and kinder approach. It won't be an immediate change, but it will be gradual and large over time.
We tried being reasonable for decades and that didn't work becsuse they want to believe the propaganda they comsume. We won't win them over by being kinder. That only works on reasonable people who care about facts.
They can go fuck themselves.
Part of the problem is that our models of knowledge were flawed. The basis was the information deficit model; the assumption was that people were missing data, and that if they learned more they would shift their understanding.
It turns out that this isn't a good fit for human psychology, but approaches based on it still persist today.
Another problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of world views. People on the left tend to think that equality is a good thing and should be a goal. People on the right do not believe in equality. Not in the sense that they opposed it, they literally don't believe it is possible. So any attempt to improve the lot of the worst-off is interpreted as an attempt to disrupt the hierarchy, ultimately ending up worse off for themselves. "You're just jealous and want to be in charge."
I think that there are communication strategies that can work, but maybe not. Humans have suffered under hierarchy for millennia, and maybe we are too flawed as a species.
It may seem unfair that the left would have to put so much effort into communicating with the right, who doesn't give a fuck. That's true, but the forces of hierarchy have had many more centuries to refine their propaganda. And what the left asks is for change and growth, while the right merely asks for a return to the way humans lived for most of civilization: a powerful few getting all the benefits and most of humanity struggling to survive.
It's about, nay, exactly the same reason why therapy is harder than causing trauma. The good news is that not causing trauma is not as hard as fixing it so it'll get easier over the generations, the important bit is to find ways to effectively chip away at things.
Looking at the US, and thinking a bit out of the box: Start by de-normalising hitting kids, and don't shy away from "if you don't, then they'll be able to get better jobs" type of arguments. You might think "but but am I not advocating for individualist turbo capitalism like that" -- not really. Or at least not in the long term: To make anyone listen you have to simultaneously teach parents how to deal with the little shits in a non-hierarchical way, thus also teaching the kids that that's possible, making them more prone to act like that once they're adults. The "think of your kid's career" part is just the hook, the rest is prefiguring Anarchy. Baby steps but hey you gotta start somewhere.
You're not wrong, "Being reasonable" can be saying "you are wrong! And here's why..." and as you said, that doesn't work. And kindness doesn't work either. I suggest we be less confrontational when trying to help them understand other views. It's hard and nuisanced. It's like saying "I'm not against you, but you're choices and support are not working the way you think they are", but in a clever way that isn't so obvious.
Yeah, fuck these guys that are trampling over human right... but like, I also would like change to happen. Being reasonable and kind isn't working. Neither is aggression.
And this attitude will only continue to cement their position against reason..congrats, you have fucked yourself
Inviting the individual while painting them all with a broad brush is not helpful. Individuals can be reached.
You're right. Addressing the group doesn't work. So stop doing that.
Wow, your right such a different result of what has and is currently happening... /S fuck those scum they will never change.
Well, i mean, someone has to and i have no other applicants, at the moment.
Truly a sage.
It's thyme.
Whereas the normal fox news viewers are a bunch of dill weeds.
Very thin ones though