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Chinese Intel Officers Interfered in U.S. Election
(www.rollingstone.com)
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this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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politics
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I've never understood the resistance to discussing the origins of Covid. It's pretty important for understanding possible future risks. As far as being racist, I don't get that either. We have to be able to criticize other nations regardless of who they are. I have a lot of respect for what China has done over the last few decades, it doesn't mean they might not have screwed up and leaked a deadly disease out of a lab.
The reality is that we'll probably never know for sure what happened because China blocked anyone else from investigating until long after the fact.
The lab leak theory isn't racist, but lots of racists really love pushing it. And even if it was true, it wouldn't mean anything. China was doing research on the viral strains they are most vulnerable to and it got out... so what? It was already in the wild. That's the point of research.
Now if someone had actual proof it was a bioweapon program, that would be worth talking about, but no one does.
You don't think that a lab leak might suggest a need for more robust standards at such labs? It's flawed to suggest that there aren't differing future mitigation implications depending on how Covid started.
As far as racists clinging to certain theories, that doesn't preclude rational people from talking about them as well. It's the same kind of reasoning that produces arguments like, "Well, we can't criticize Israel, because... Nazis!"
And, frankly, I have always found the idea that Covid started in a wet market much more racially charged than the idea of a lab leak.
The reasoning doesn't make sense to me on multiple levels.
Even if it was a protocol failure, they'd have fixed it afterwards.
The obsession with the theory with no proof is just conspiracy thinking at best, for what? They're fucking genociding millions of people as it is, why is a potential accident the issue at hand?
That's what doesn't make sense to me.
We have proof of a genocide, but the viral outbreak we've known was coming for twenty years is the problem?
Yeah, I just think the resistance to even discussing it is very strange. Not suggesting conspiracy, just good old fashioned human irrationally.
The problem, to me, is that the wet market in Wuhan has been studied for decades as a possible location where a viral outbreak could happen. And china shit it down for a short time but let it reopen. And scientists are just right back to studying this dangerous petri dish.
Edit: Scientists and science journalists have shared this opinion, read good sources.
The possible origins should be discussed. By experts. What kind of discussion are you looking for? I'm not a bioweapons expert. Are you? What possible conclusion can we come to that actual experts might not have considered?
I just see this idea that everyone's viewpoint is equivalently valid everywhere and it drives me crazy. This is a scientific question. Real experts study this stuff their entire lives. The one guy with a Ph.D. in Microbiology has an opinion that's worth more than a million random idiots with a keyboard and internet. Maybe instead of coming to our own conclusions, we listen.
Of course. Again, I just don't understand the weird polarizing effect even bringing it up causes. By your own reasoning there would be almost nothing most of us average people should even talk about. I find that highly questionable as a blanket statement. We can certainly talk about what we think the experts should be considering without making our own conclusions about it.
Edit: Just to clarify, you mentioned bioweapons. I haven't heard anything to support that. I just wanted to be clear. I'm not promoting any extreme theories or indeed any theory.
You totally misunderstood what I suggested. Your statement that we can't discuss anything proves it.
There are a myriad of things we can discuss. Politics, religion, whether Kirk or Picard was better. None of these are provably right or wrong. However, if someone was dispensing medical advice or legal advice, I would hope you'd talk to a real expert. This is the same. I'm not qualified to determine what is right in regards to Covid's origin so I listen to the consensus of experts.
But can we talk about climate change? Because we sure do. We talk about complicated economics topics, social issues, human biology... I just don't see why the line is drawn at where Covid might have originated.
No. We can't talk about whether climate change is real. There's an overwhelming amount of evidence proving it's happening. Where do we draw the line in your world? Do you suffer all the fools who don't believe in gravity too? How about geocentrism? Flat earthers?
There's no line at Covid. I'm saying there should be a line at hard sciences and questions that are verifiable. We can discuss whether gravity exists but it's just wasted breath if neither one of us knows all that much about gravity.
Fair enough. Climate change was a bad example. Maybe I could have said something like aliens. I'm far from an expert on anything to do with anything related to aliens, but I'm willing to recognize that it's an open question. Similarly, I'm not really saying we should imagine we have the answer with Covid, I just don't think there's anything wrong with recognizing that it's an open question. In one of my first comments in this thread in fact (I have apparently been talking to multiple people and not always realizing they're different...), I stated up front that I doubt we'll ever have an answer. I suppose the point has been belabored quite a bit at this point. I appreciate your insights and that you took the time to share them without getting too... um... Reddity?