this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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Many thanks to the person who shared that you can ask your local Chinese embassy for a copy of „The Governance Of China“.

I reached out to the Chinese embassy in Vienna and got not only a super friendly response, but also an invite to the embassy + 6 copies of the German translation (2x II, III, IV)!

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[–] baaaaaaaaaaah@hexbear.net 5 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

The people there don't want it to change.

It's true that the Chinese population in general are anti-drug, but they're not a monolith. Lots of young Chinese enjoy(ed) recreational drug use, especially prior to the crackdowns in the late 2010s where many were caught and severely punished.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

That is true of everything. There are minority groups that want all sorts of things the rest of the population wouldnt want. Democracy isnt about pleasing everyone its majority rule.

[–] baaaaaaaaaaah@hexbear.net 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

That's a limited view of democracy. It wouldn't be democratic to limit the rights of queer or ethnic minority people just because a majority supported it.

Obviously recreational drug use is a step well below identity, but in general we should be supportive of people being able to live as they want to live if it doesn't affect other people.

I'm very supportive of China but I agree with the other poster, their drug policy is draconian and I hope given time they safely and responsibly liberalise.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Human rights are not the same as the right to do drugs. China does not permit gay marriage for example but they do not stop gay people from living their lives, and you would never be assaulted in China for being gay no matter how much someone doesn't like it. Its not something that harms others so youd never be punished for doing it. Gay people existing does not effect the rest of society.

(Also important to note the differences in general in how marriage is viewed in China. Its a lot more transactional. But thats changing, and they have considered allowing gay marriage too recently. So i expect they'll eventually allow it as the society shifts its views on marriage.)

Drug use does have an effect on the rest of society though. You are still exposed to 2nd hand smoke in public places for example, and it is a burden on health systems that the rest of society has to pay for.

The west is all about individuality. That is fine for you, and if you want to insist on a society structured around having as much individual freedom to do drugs or own guns or whatever as possible thats fine for you. That's not how China is. China has the freedom to live a comfortable life, to be healthy, and to participate in a harmonious society. Drug use is not a part of that. China prioritizes the collective good over individuals. That means you are not allowed to do certain things. You may see it as draconian, but that is your own cultural, as you say liberal, perspective.

Do you see the difference between the two positions we are arguing? You insist that China and all other nations must have the same drug policy you think is best, but i am saying you can have different policies in different cultures and nations. These policies are not a one size fits all, and not all places should be the same. The world would be quite boring if they were.

China may be strict yes, but that is a product of the time we live in. China must maintain a strict social order to prevent subversion by outside influence via any method available. So in all things, not just drugs, the punishments for breaking the law can be strong. China also though has in their criminal code crimes of necessity. Where if you can prove that you had to break the law for your own need, like needing food, and that you tried to minimize the harm you did, and only took what was needed the charges can be dismissed. This is a demonstration of a different set of priorities to the west. China strives for social harmony, and the law is designed in a way to maximize that. In some cases that requires a strong hand, and in others it requires understanding, and leniency.

China may be able to be more lenient on someone who is addicted to drugs personally. To focus on getting them off the drugs as a medical issue maybe. But a person who distributes them is another matter. And they already do make distinctions based on this. Maybe it should be more refined, but that does not mean drugs should ever simply be allowed, and certainly not that anything other than allowing drugs is somehow bad.

In many cases people in the west only use drugs as they do because they either do not have access to professonal medical care, not an issue in China, or they are coping with existing in a society that is not pleasant to live in. Also mostly not an issue in China. China is a socialist post-revolutionairy state and people find fulfillment from things other than recreational drug use. They have community, and a good quality of life. When someone needs medical care they do not need to handle it themselves. They go to a doctor. They recieve medications with proper doseage and are given specific instructions on its use.

Drug use is something we should strive to reduce the need for, and China does that quite well. These policies are generalized and may need refining. Much like how poverty elimination policies went from being blanket generalized ones that didnt work for everyone to being more focused and personalized efforts. The generalized approach is a first step on a long road to eventually eliminating the need for recreational drug use entirely. Which i imagine would eventually even include things like alcohol, and tobacco. As if people have truly fulfilling lives otherwise they wouldn't need or want those things.

[–] baaaaaaaaaaah@hexbear.net 1 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Personally I have a universal view that people should have as much individual freedom as possible while not negatively impacting the lives of others, I'd like this to apply anywhere in the world.

And I don't agree that a collectivist society and individual freedoms are contrary. Chinese people have many individual freedoms; they can love and live how they want, and they can choose to hurt themselves with drink and tobacco and McDonalds if they want, of course with sensible limits to avoid impacting others. Drug policy is different, it's hardline, and I don't see why that has to be the case.

I'll say now I'm personally not pro-drug use, and I have no issue with states discouraging harmful lifestyles, but at the same time I'm never going to support jailing people for smoking a native plant in private.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I think that many people from the west just see the most severe punishment and apply that to all cases. Prison times in China for drugs are less than even America usually. Death penalty or long prison times are only in severe cases.

[–] baaaaaaaaaaah@hexbear.net 1 points 5 hours ago

I have close Chinese friends who have done jail time for recreational drug use. I don't think that was fair and I stand by that. It's unnecessary, and in my opinion not positive for either them or society.

Honestly I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree otherwise.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 5 hours ago

It sounds like maybe you think its more severe than it is. Someone using personally caught with a small amount does not generally go to prison. I had DeepSeek summarize Chinas drug laws for you. I think they are quite reasonable honestly. Maybe could be a bit more lenient in some ways and be fine, but they do have a focus on getting people in rehab.

China enforces stringent drug laws under its Criminal Law and Anti-Drug Law, with severe penalties for offenses. Below is a structured summary of key provisions and punishments:

1. Legal Framework

  • Criminal Law (Articles 347–355): Governs serious drug crimes (trafficking, manufacturing, possession).
  • Anti-Drug Law (2008): Addresses administrative penalties for drug use and rehabilitation.

2. Key Offenses and Punishments

A. Trafficking, Manufacturing, Transporting, or Selling Drugs (Article 347)

  • General Offenses:
    • Minimum Punishment: 3+ years imprisonment, fines.
    • Aggravating Factors (e.g., international trafficking, organized crime, minors involved): 15 years, life imprisonment, or death penalty.
  • Quantity-Based Thresholds (varies by drug type; examples below):
    • "Large Amount":
      • Heroin/methamphetamine: ≥50 grams.
      • Punishment: 15 years, life, or death + fines/confiscation.
    • "Significant Amount":
      • Heroin/methamphetamine: ≥10 grams but <50 grams.
      • Punishment: 7+ years imprisonment + fines.
    • "Small Amount":
      • Any detectable quantity.
      • Punishment: ≤3–7 years + fines.

B. Illegal Possession (Article 348)

  • Criminal Offense (if above thresholds):
    • "Large Amount":
      • Heroin/methamphetamine: ≥10 grams.
      • Punishment: ≤3 years imprisonment or detention + fines.
    • "Very Large Amount" or Aggravating Circumstances: Up to 7 years + fines.
  • Below Thresholds: Administrative penalties (detention, rehab).

C. Drug Use (Anti-Drug Law)

  • Administrative Penalties:
    • First-time offenders: 10–15 days detention + fines.
    • Compulsory Rehabilitation: 3 years (community-based) or 2 years (isolated) for refusal/relapse.

D. Other Offenses

  • Harboring Users/Providing Venues (Article 354): ≤3 years imprisonment or detention + fines.
  • Drug Planting/Illegal Trade (Articles 351–353): Fines to life imprisonment, depending on severity.

3. Key Notes

  • Zero-Tolerance Policy: Even small quantities may lead to harsh penalties.
  • Recidivism: Harsher punishments for repeat offenders.
  • Regional Variations: Thresholds may adjust locally but remain severe.

China’s approach emphasizes deterrence, combining criminal sanctions for trafficking/manufacturing with compulsory rehab for users. The death penalty applies to high-volume trafficking, reflecting the strict stance against drug crimes.