this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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it's like you believe you can tariff them expecting they won't do the same. Why do you believe the rest of the world is not going to retaliate and why do you believe America can prosper without the rest of the world?

What's the point of having a military alliance with countries you puts tariffs on? That's unfriendly to say the least.

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[–] MortUS@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (7 children)

I'm not a Republican, but I'll bite.

The U.S. is kinda in a bad spot right now. Not just politically but economically as well. Our National Debt is the highest it's ever been. While I'm 100% for taxing Billionaires and their Trillion dollars companies more, by like, a lot, the Billionaires of course don't want that. So they're trying to cut what they can and wheel and deal. Why support Climate Change (French EU thing, I don't remember) acts when you can [pocket the money] use that to pay down debt? The War in Ukraine has unfortunately been drawn out too long for us to stay financially invested in it. Our allies across the sea won't be able to help our country balance our debt when they have Ukraine to worry about as well. So they've decided to put pressure on every external source of revenue while cutting what they can without getting lynched.

Let's talk about Canada and Mexico, but first, a bit of H I S T O R Y. Back in the 90s or 00s the Clinton Administration implemented NAFTA. The agreement sounded good on paper: Strength our border countries. Lifts us all up by giving all the countries jobs, more opportunity, more demand. While outsourcing our manual labor we can focus on the future: Technology! Hindsight is 20/20 though. Why not move our business to a country where we pay lower wages and will end up with higher profits for future investments (like yachts)? Why not get cheaper parts instead of paying the U.S. prices? A ton of manual labor jobs were lost, and many cities (car manufacturing cities, steel cities, etc.) simply never recovered. NAFTA stayed in place more or less until Trump Trumped it into the USMCA in 2020. That gets renegotiated in 2026 with all 3 countries either coming to an agreement or dissolving the agreement.

From all accounts, NAFTA certainly seemed harmful to the American industry at the time, but can that industry recover, and should it? Personally, I don't think so, but they seem to think so. So, from my point of view, the reason they're alienating allies is to extort them for money to help pay down the National Debt and hopefully grow back American industries lost over 2 decades ago.

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (111 children)

The ''aid'' we send to Ukraine is the US goverment using US money to buy US products and have the military drop them off. Those millions we send to Ukraine is money we have and keep in our economy, why conservatives are so fucking stupid they can't figure this out is infuriating. Yes. Saw off you legs to lose weight. You'll lose SO much.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Not even. A lot of the “aid” is

  • military takes old stuff out of stock and drops it off in Ukraine
  • us gov’t buys new stuff from US companies
  • military gets fresh stock

US gets

  • strong profitable defense contractors
  • freshened stocks of consumables
  • increased weapons manufacturing capacity
  • money to build up new tech so US doesn’t have to invest in them
[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)
  • strong profitable defense contractors

Why the hell is this supposed to be a point in favor? I don't support the military-industrial complex, because I'm not a right-winger or a hawk.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Profitable is a point in favor, if you’re one of them. Strong supply chain is a point in favor, if you’re a hawk or if you think we do need defense

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Profitable for the rich. Defense for the rich. Both are points against.

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[–] BadmanDan@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Republicans literally add to the debt everytime they’re elected.

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[–] itsprobablyfine@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I recognize you're doing some form or devils advocate and I appreciate that. I grew up in the ruins of one of those cities and it really helped define my political beliefs. I think it's important to not suddenly frame NAFTA as this wonderful thing just because trump opposes it. There is a real reckoning we need to have as a country when it comes to rebuilding our industrial base. Are tariffs the answer? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't mean that the people asking for them are completely delusional. Trump is capitalizing on a real pain that people are feeling, and have felt for a generation now. I wish we had a proper progressive to reframe the debate. It's not about us vs Canada, it's about the disgustingly wealthy vs everyone else. You don't want people to support tariffs? Then we need real left wing populist arguments.

I know it's stupid. Being right should be good enough. But it's not. We need to be convincing. And not 'republican lite' convincing - more like teddy Roosevelt f'ing come at me unabashed progressivism convincing.

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[–] Litebit@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] MortUS@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Every president has. It's been a growing problem through multiple different administrations now. This isn't a party issue, it's a "Eat the Rich" issue. The Billionaire class has taking but not putting back in, and they're expecting regular working people to foot the bill. That's why the 22 Billion dollar cut on Social Services through HHS instead of taxing the 400+ Billionaires in America.

[–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Funny you think they're going to actually pay down the debt.

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[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

American industry at the time, but can that industry recover, and should it? Personally, I don’t think so, but they seem to think so.

I would just say that not everyone is cut out for "advanced" jobs. There is a need for more industrial/mechanical jobs that those of us can occupy and still make a decent living.

I don't mean that as a way to disparage other people, I'm referring to myself and people like me. I'm far too stupid for tech jobs.

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[–] jacksilver@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (3 children)

You've really bought into the propaganda there, besides Clinton our national debt has always been the "highest" every year. The most important factor is foreign vs domestically held debt, and that ratio hasn't changed for the worse.

Obviously we have some spending concerns, but financially that's not the primary concern for the US right now (and we wouldn't be talking tax cuts if it was).

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