this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
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So, don’t defend your home from a foreign invader unless you’re allowed into NATO? This doesn’t make any sense.
Provide an example of a "Russian bot" in this thread, keen observer. State solid reasons why they are a bot, and why their comments are "blind propaganda against Ukraine".
I can't prove any user are bots, though that is my opinion because I can't comprehend any other reason for their behaviour. And the blind propaganda is all the messages framing Zelensky as the cause of Ukraine's destruction while willfully ignoring Russia's huge involvement, or comments trying to imply he is hated by most Ukrainians (despite his approval rating being well over 50%).
To be clear, being critical of Zelensky is not propaganda, but willfully ignoring data and historical events for the sole benefit of Russia is.
Have you considered reading the comment instead of spamming Russian bot?
I do not endorse Putin invading Ukraine. And Putin is an authoritarian dictator.
I simply state that Ukraine was used as a pawn for NATO to weaken Russia. And this was predicted years ago. But anyone saying it was called a Russia bot.
Ukraine was caught between two evils and did not use its own leverage to get guarantees from NATO. Instead it blindly trusted hollow phrases of possible future NATO membership, refused ceasefire deals, and now is left holding the bag.
I did not even reply to you, I replied to another comment which has been since deleted, and was referring to comments across this whole comment section. (Eg: "when his countrymen hang him", or "this scumbag is responsible for destroying the country")
You can check my comment history, I am fairly sure that is the first time I have ever referred to a user as a Russian bot. Hardly spamming.
I disagree with your original comment mostly because of the phrasing, because I think it implies that the only reason for Ukraine to be fighting was for NATO membership (as opposed to defending their home from invaders) but your clarification about Ukraine being stuck between two evils I can agree with, or at least find reasonable.
Edit: added examples above
No example of a “Russian bot” is in sight, and the remainder of your reasoning boils down to "These users are bots because there's no other reason for them not to be" (even though we know the actual reason is that they disagree with the State Department-sanctioned "opinion" of yours).
so blind propaganda here is just giving Zelensky a bad rap, which gives off a bad vibe. Why entertain and favor this vibes-based performative analysis over understanding the reality of the situation?
I'm not sure why you are misconstruing my message, I said explicitly that criticising Zelenksy is not propaganda. Once again, propaganda is when you blatantly ignore reality in an attempt to give Zelenksy (or anyone) a "bad rap".
Implying that Zelenksy has little support from Ukrainians by claiming he will be hung by his countrymen is blatantly ignoring the statistical truth that a good majority of Ukrainians support him.
Stating that Zelenksy is the sole reason for Ukraine's destruction is blatantly ignoring the historical truth that Russia invaded Ukraine.
Please explain to me how these are "vibe based"
No, he will be hung by the banderites and ultra nationalists regardless of how popular he is.
And even then, his popularity depends on the war going well, which it is not, so he will become much less popular at the end especially if he makes a bad deal (which the us will force on him).
thankfully, I don't have to say much as other users have contributed a lot more in on this subject. It shouldn't be hard to find out how your opinions are vibes-based.:
https://lemmy.ml/post/15038153/10689923
https://lemmy.ml/post/15038153/10685025
This is factually correct, you are right for once. There were numerous other factors into play that helped perpetuate this senseless destruction which warrants a nuanced discussion, namely the $$$ factor: Ukraine sits on trillions worth of minerals. US politicians want them.
And what exactly are my opinions which are "vibe based"? The only opinions I have stated in this thread is that users are sharing blatant propaganda (one example of which you agreed with), and that I don't see a reason why any non-bot would willingly spread propaganda.
The links you sent don't have anything to do with what I've stated. It seems like you are trying to show me that Zelensky deserves to be hung, but this is irrelevant to my statement that claiming "he will be hung by his countrymen" is propaganda.
For example I might have sources as to why I think Putin should be hung, but if I went around saying that Putin will be hung by his countrymen it would be implying that he is hated by Russians, which is an outright lie and propaganda.
Ukraine didn't take peace deals throughout the war because they thought the Europeans and Americans had their backs, and would let them into NATO for security in the future.
Now the Ukrainians have lost hundreds of thousands of people, huge tracts of land, and are about to be looted so hard it will make the looting of Russia after the dissolution of the USSR look like a cake walk.
The Ukrainians fought for a lie. Rule no. 1 of geopolitics. NEVER trust the Europeans or Americans. They will always backstab you.
Ukraine is now destroyed, they are not in NATO. And they have a massive debt to America.
This makes a lot of sense 🤠👍
masterful gambit