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Microsoft announces Python formulas in Excel... which have to get sent to the cloud (techcommunity.microsoft.com)

submitted 10 months ago by Aatube@kbin.social to c/technology@beehaw.org

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Since its inception, Microsoft Excel has changed how people organize, analyze, and visualize their data, providing a basis for decision-making for the flying billionaires heads up in the clouds who don't give a fuck for life off~~the~~line

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[-] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 68 points 10 months ago

Firstly, there's no technological reason for this. It's all rent-seeking bullshit. But the thing is, there's no version of Office that this point that works without a subscription, which also assumes you're probably always online, so it's honestly moot anyway.

It's so tiresome. Big tech really doesn't want people to run, own, or operate their own systems independently.

[-] dax@beehaw.org 32 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Full disclosure, I work for MSFT, but I do not speak for them. I fucking hate python and am forced to write it a lot while working here, but I want to suggest there's a complementary technological reason for wanting to run it in the cloud. This isn't to say that MSFT will stand to make more money if you are using their cloud services, and I don't have any insight at all into the "gib us money plz" side of this business.

The reason: One of the biggest headaches for IT depts has been attack vectors through office productivity suites. Download a sketchy excel spreadsheet from someone, and suddenly custom macros are purposefully creating avenues for attack, or are attacks themselves. Ken and Debra in accounting aren't security people. They got a spreadsheet from an email that seems superficially plausible, so they pop it open. Suddenly, your entire org is ransomwared just because two people who are just doing their normal duties get tricked.

That's why the ol' VBA shit and all those fancy macro systems from the past got neutered. Sandboxed and isolated, removed entirely, whatever. But a good feature gets lost.

Enter The Cloud, or in other terms, "Someone Else's Computer". As in, someone else's computer out there, far from your corporate network, that has no ability to reach back through your security perimeter and have a rummage around your business guts. The worst thing that will happen is the attack-vector-spreadsheet, itself, might be compromised. Or Microsoft's cloud computers, which are, again, not your computers.

Anyway, that's honestly a great reason for it. And there's also the business cat reasons, which I don't like in principle; I always begrudge businesses their attempts at squeezing us for more and more every single fucking day. So anyway, it probably isn't worth it to the average home user, but IT departments are going to be thrilled, even if the tech budget is going to get even fatter paying for all these users using someone else's computer.

I have strong opinions about home users who can write Python already but choose to use excel, but I'll keep them to myself. They're elitist and basically just me being a little shit, so... you do you, boo.

[-] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 7 points 10 months ago

I can see the case of just not wanting to build or bundle a python interpreter into Excel (since they're not going make having python installed on a local machine a dependency). But the security issue can make sense I suppose from a certain point of view. Don't agree with it, but I can understand it.

Also as a python dev, I fucking love python 😂

[-] dax@beehaw.org 7 points 10 months ago

They could easily vendor python in the excel distribution if they wanted to, though. In fact, it would be the smart thing to do from their perspective; expecting people to keep up to date python versions (and what counts as up to date and what counts as a needless forced upgrade just from typing import List for your typehints turns into : list is super plausibly arguable.)

I can't love python after all the pain and suffering I've had to go through packaging things from extension modules. I've never had a worse experience with computers, and I used to write coldfusion and java swing for money, so that's fucking saying something. The entire distutils ->setuptools->build/PEP517 + bdist vs. sdist is the least gratifying work in my entire career, by far. It's not even interesting, it's just shockingly poorly documented and your only plausible solution is "try literally everything and see which things work". I shouldn't have to fucking emulate a quantum computer just to ship a fucking bdist.

[-] TehPers@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

Just the other day, we had to create a requirements.txt with a single character . to get a tool to correctly install dependencies from our pyproject.toml. The tool only supports reading from requirements.txt and setup.py, but we had a pyproject.toml with configurations for many of the other tools we use.

I keep wanting to think it's improving over time, but the reality seems to be simpler than that. It's just changing over time. That being said, type hints were a welcome addition, and occasionally they add new features that make sense. They also add features like the walrus operator, but we don't talk about those.