219
submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de to c/leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 37 points 1 week ago

Market socialism with an emphasis on genuine co-ops. It's not hard, it works, and you don't necessarily build an immutable heirarchy.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago

Exactly. Capitalism isn't bad because of free markets, free markets are great and arguably way better than planned economies in most applications (minus things like healthcare, if you can't reasonably choose not to buy a product then prices will inflate out of control).

The problem with Capitalism is the concentration of capital which inevitably leads to oligarchy. Put profits in the hands of workers instead of investors and watch the problems melt away. Hell, I can see the merits of totally replacing wages with proportional stake in the company. When everyone gets a percentage of the profits, they're way more motivated to work efficiently with less waste and higher productivity.

[-] JayDee@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I'd argue that the emergence of capitalists and capitalist ideology, and the amassing of currency is just a natural tendency of currency itself. Currency itself is a tool of transactional thought, and I'd argue that if we could move away from transactional trade and focused more on mutual wellbeing, we could do without currency entirely.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

That requires a basically unanimous raising of class consciousness. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. We're just not wired that way on a scale above small communities. Even without currency, hoarders gonna hoard. Before we had currency, we had people hoarding resources directly. It works in Star Trek because they're post-scarcity.

Until we're post-scarcity, we need a way to exchange goods and services on a scale larger than a neighborhood.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 1 week ago

We are post scarcity, on basic needs.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Don't think that's gonna be enough.

[-] Slotos@feddit.nl 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As an aside, idealistic free market is impossible to achieve without regulation. At the very least, contracts need to be enforced. Free market also demands price forming to happen through bids on the market, needing protection from extra-market negotiations. As an elastic system, it can also be broken by a concerted application of force and needs protection from such actions.

Whatever is being sold as free market sounds like a myth at best.

PS: Coop corporations should really become the norm. Trickle up systems create concentrations of power by design, and concentration of power is how you stretch elastic system beyond its deformation limits.

[-] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The market will just force coops to behave like capitalist companies again...

Also:

The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that it has a boss
-Bordiga

[-] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 week ago

But without checks and balances then we could end up with corrupt plutocrats like the Soviets had.

The heart of Marxism is spreading power out as much as possible by giving the working class control over our resources and economy.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Howso? Capitalism is when non-worker investors own the means of production. In a co-op the workers literally own the means of production, so the workers are getting their fair share of the profit.

this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2024
219 points (92.3% liked)

Lefty Memes

4514 readers
34 users here now

An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!

Rules

Version without spoilers

0. Only post socialist memes


That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)


1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here


Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.


2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such


That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.


3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.


That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).


4. No Bigotry.


The only dangerous minority is the rich.


5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)


6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.



  1. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS