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submitted 1 year ago by ATQ@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

https://archive.li/Z0m5m

The Russian commander of the “Vostok” Battalion fighting in southern Ukraine said on Thursday that Ukraine will not be defeated and suggested that Russia freeze the war along current frontlines.

Alexander Khodakovsky made the candid concession yesterday on his Telegram channel after Russian forces, including his own troops, were devastatingly defeated by Ukrainian marines earlier this week at Urozhaine in the Zaporizhzhia-Donetsk regional border area.

“Can we bring down Ukraine militarily? Now and in the near future, no,” Khodakovsky, a former official of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic, said yesterday.

“When I talk to myself about our destiny in this war, I mean that we will not crawl forward, like the [Ukrainians], turning everything into [destroyed] Bakhmuts in our path. And, I do not foresee the easy occupation of cities,” he said.

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[-] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

What part of this is incorrect?

"Can we bring down Ukraine militarily? Now and in the near future, no,” Khodakovsky, a former official of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic, said yesterday."

The Kyiv Post is quoting Alexander Sergeevich Khodakovsky from his telegram channel, the Russian commander of the pro-Russian Vostok Battalion. He was involved in the uprising in Donetsk back in 2014 and continues to this day to be involved in the Ukrainian war.

https://t.me/s/aleksandr_skif?before=2851

In this case, they are quoting a primary source. So irrespective of your opinion of their journalistic integrity, this appears to be factual information.

Here's another source from Reuters that discusses the Ukrainian Marines retaking Urozhaine:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-says-recaptures-urozhaine-donetsk-region-russian-forces-2023-08-16/

This is a typical poisoning the well ad hominem.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 32 points 1 year ago

In this case, they are quoting a primary source. So irrespective of your opinion of their journalistic integrity, this appears to be factual information.

Let's start with the fact that he's not some top Russian commander, and he's not even part of the actual Russian military. He's one of the commanders of the militias who've been fighting against the regime. the article is clearly misrepresenting his position and authority.

Here’s another source from Reuters that discusses the Ukrainian Marines retaking Urozhaine

Meanwhile, these little villages change sides pretty much every day of the conflict. You can see on the pro Ukrainian map how small this place is and that it's not even close to Russian defensive lines https://liveuamap.com/#

Perhaps you can explain why you think this is a significant event here. Seems like this is a much bigger deal https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/10/europe/kupyansk-ukraine-evacuation-russia-intl/index.html

[-] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-6-2023

Well according to the Institute for the Study of War, he is the current commander of the Vostok battalion in Donetsk. A lot of people reject the idea that the so-called rebellion in danetsk and luhansk was a grassroots movement, and was instead orchestrated by the Russian GRU and FSB to whittle away at Ukraine.

Therefore, that would lend credence to the idea that Khodakovsky is in fact a Russian commander, despite the fact that he was born in Donetsk. He did however relocate to Russia after 2018 before returning for the war.

--

I am less interested in the details of this particular event, as I am more concerned about the truth. I merely provided alternative sources of information that cross-referenced and corroborated the material in the article as being mostly true.

--

As for a Kupyansk, I'm not at all surprised because as you say, there has been give and take along the border for the entire duration of the war. And since Russia still has its inventory a large amount of artillery, any town is at risk of attack.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

ISW is a propaganda outlet run by Vicky Nuland, so if that's where you get your information from that explains a lot about your world view. The fact that a lot of people in the west guzzle propaganda isn't really an argument.

Therefore, you you should stick to actual facts of the situation instead of making stuff up.

If you were concerned about the truth then you wouldn't be pretending that the uprising in Donetsk was somehow orchestrated when there's a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Let's take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here's the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:

here's how the election in 2004 went:

this is the 2010 election:

As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:

The reality is that the population in these areas is largely ethnic Russian and after US sponsored coup regime started doing things like banning Russian language, these people rebelled against it.

Furthermore, here's what CNN was reporting the regime doing in Donbas back in 2014 https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296

Here's an article from the human rights watch https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions

And here's a whole documentary of the atrocities these people suffered https://yewtu.be/watch?v=bN68OfFKaWs

Pretending this was somehow orchestrated as opposed to directly caused by the oppression of the regime is the height of dishonesty. Which is pretty weird to see coming out from somebody who seeks the truth.

Plenty of western experts have been talking about this for many decades. This only became controversial to mention after the war started. Here's what Chomsky has to say on the issue recently:

https://truthout.org/articles/us-approach-to-ukraine-and-russia-has-left-the-domain-of-rational-discourse/

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/

As for a Kupyansk, I’m not at all surprised because as you say, there has been give and take along the border for the entire duration of the war. And since Russia still has its inventory a large amount of artillery, any town is at risk of attack.

Except Russia made many kilometres of progress there and Ukraine is now evacuating from the area. That's not give and take, that's Ukrainian position collapsing. Russia isn't evacuating anybody at any single point that Ukraine was trying to break through for the past 10 weeks.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

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[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Mearsheimer

A leftie citing a Realist. Then Chomsky, the serial genocide denier larping as an Anarchist you must be American he's a persona non grata in Europe. In a sense also a realist in the sense of "no chess piece country is ever doing anything and everything bad that ever happens is due to the CIA because what the other players are doing is always good".

Now I have my issues with Kraut but watch this.

[-] ThomasMuentzner@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

you are very good at repeating slander ! We are very good in seeing through it ...

tell me why would you miss out on a "A leftie citing a Realist" and a "serial genocide denier larping as an Anarchist" sounds interesting .. also its required from you, Your not a serious Person if and worth the discussion if "listening to the Dissent" is to much to ask for you ...

Imaging in a Court

"the evidence is not relevant because it was filmed by a Japanse camera , and the Japanese are dirty , i will not watch this , Also take me Serious please !"

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

Because the Soviets -- rightly -- decried geopolitical realism as imperialist apologia. You're citing imperialist apologia. As a so-called leftist.

And Chomsky denying genocides, do I really have to go into that?

[-] ThomasMuentzner@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

Because the Soviets -- rightly -- decried geopolitical realism as imperialist apologia. You're citing imperialist apologia. As a so-called leftist.

what ? maybe actually concern yourself with the TOPIC.. not with the Messanger ? Do you Think i am Vladimir Putin ? That i controll the Russian army ? I explaine to you "Russias Course" of action , I am not Russia , i am a Person explaining to you the Thoughts of Russia , BECAUSE THEY ARE RELEVENT TO THE SITUATION, Russia has a Full Strategic Array , World most advanced Nuclear and Missile Technology and Security council seat and hundreds of Tousends of Soldiers ,you are probably not even valued more then Medicine by your state , Russias Opinion is RELEVANT to the Situation they are way more relevent then your thought s and my thoughts ... The Sowjet union is Dead , she Preached many great thinks we all love and miss her dearly ...

We are the "dirtbag" left , you dont scare or scold us with your purity fetish...

And Chomsky denying genocides, do I really have to go into that

which one ? Uigurs, Palestina or Great Replacementtheory ... ?

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

what ? maybe actually concern yourself with the TOPIC… not with the Messanger ?

I linked you a video. Watch it. The issue with realism is not who spouts it but the way in which it frames international relations.

which one ? Uigurs, Palestina or Great Replacementtheory … ?

Cambodia, Yugoslavia, I think there were others but those I'm sure of. He later on did accept that the Red Khmer were assholes but still defended his prior judgement ("The CIA is evil so me saying killing fields were a CIA invention was warranted"), to this day so far as I know he's still supporting Milosevic and denying Serbs erected concentration camps, were shelling civilians, suchlike.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=XXmwyyKcBLk

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[-] Flaps@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Institute for the Study of War

Lmao

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

A lot of people reject the idea that the so-called rebellion in danetsk and luhansk was a grassroots movement

Therefore, that would lend credence to the idea that Khodakovsky is in fact a Russian commander

"A lot of people are saying it" lends credence to nothing.

The war timeline link in your source, by the way, will show you the front has not moved appreciably for nearly a year.

[-] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

If you're curious, this is the full telegram translation from DeepL:

Can we militarily bring down Ukraine? Right now and in the short term, no. When I reason in myself about our victory in this war - I don't mean that we will crawl forward like them, turning everything into bahmuts on our way. And I don't envision the easy occupation of cities.... We will enter the phase that is most disadvantageous for Ukraine in its "self-styled" state: the phase of neither peace nor war. We could be in this phase if, instead of the SWO, we recognized the territories and officially took them under guardianship. But that would be a completely different turn of history....

In our reality, which has already taken place, it will come to a "truce". We have started certain processes in the economy, caused by the increased load, but in general we have endured and caught the balance. We are balancing - not without that - but we are walking on a tightrope. Remember the crisis of the eighth year, which was called the crisis of the banking system? Back then, just one bank collapsed, setting off the domino principle, and we experienced a lot of bad things in a fairly short period of time. Now there is systematic pressure, but we are warming up, but we are holding on.

It will not be the same with Ukraine. If we don't let the internal situation in Russia to rock, we have a very high survivability with all our ailments. Ukraine is a completely different "physics". Economically and politically, it is a construct that cannot survive on its own. That is why the project of independent Ukraine was not realized and turned into a project of "who to lie under". Unfortunately, the elites oriented to Western money defeated the elites who wanted to milk Russia. Now the West gives mostly what can only bring destruction. When you read about the next aid, what you see is not money that you can saw, but iron that you have to dispose of. You can't make much money from it. Therefore, at the end of the upcoming phase, we will most likely face a global redivision of Ukraine. Translated with DeepL https://www.deepl.com/app/?utm_source=android&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=share-translation

[-] Pseudoplatanus22@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

Seems as though he's saying basically what most Hexbears are saying: that Ukraine is unstable, and without Western support it will fall. All Russia needs to do is hold out until the West gets bored or pivots to Taiwan, which is easier said than done, admittedly, but is possible.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's based on the US being in it only half-heartedly. Frankly speaking the US withdrawing from the conflict could end it because Russia will stop once it sees that Europe doubles down (after a moment of shock and denial about us being US puppets etc), but so would America actually committing.

Where are the damn ATACMS, America? Guarantees of delivering Abrams for years on end no-matter-what?

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

"We could have won if we tried harder" is U.S. cope from Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Afghanistan...

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee -2 points 1 year ago

I'm not American. And no the American cope is "We won Vietnam because we had a higher kill count".

I'm German. And yes we won WWII because we got rid of the Nazis.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

Both flavors of cope abound regarding Vietnam. I didn't mean to imply I assumed you were American; I'm just pointing out that "if we really took the gloves off they wouldn't stand a chance" is (1) false, (2) a way the public gets sold on the next war, and (3) a silly thing to say when whatever "gloves off" scenario one imagines isn't going to happen.

[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

I'm German. And yes we won WWII because we got rid of the Nazis.

You Germans didn't get rid of the nazis, you were the nazis

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

My family tree very much would like to disagree.

And in any case it's irrelevant as liberation from the Nazis, indeed, was a liberation. How can you lose when that happens. You know who's pissed that "we lost the war"? Actual Nazis.

[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

So when are you going to Ukraine to sign up for the frontline?

this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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