53
submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

I'm guessing it's like Christianity where there are leftist Christians who follow Jesus' more progressive messages such as giving to the less fortunate and healing the sick, and then there are the scary Christian evangelicals that want A Handmaids Tale and conversion therapy. Logically, Islam probably isn't a monolith in a similar way other religions aren't.

However, I have never heard about what those of the Islamic faith actually believe outside of the hysterical post 9/11 Islamophobia I've been indoctrinated with as a child.

I want to know what the truth is and hear the other sides story. To me it's obvious that Islamophobia is wrong, however when Islamophobes make wild claims about it, I can't really refute them confidently because I'm simply ignorant of the facts. Please educate my dumb, white ass.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Neptium@hexbear.net 17 points 1 day ago

I was debating whether to respond to this or not and how to respond to this.

Mandatory general reading:

Orientalism, Edward Said and Eurocentrism, Samir Amin

I will link this article again, titled: Gay universalism, homoracialism and « marriage for all » by Houria Bouteldja.

I can also list various writers and works across the Islamic world, from Islamic feminism, Islamic liberation theology, decolonial marxists, to Islamic socialists. But I think that may not be helpful because again we are stuck in this false dichotomy of “liberal” and “conservatism”. Of a rigid notion of “progress” and “reaction”, which I might add spits in the face of dialectics.

I can’t fault those that believe in a linear progress of history. Early Marxism itself was tainted with such notions until the 20th century.

So instead I will posit this question:

If we are to believe that gender and sexuality are socially situated within a specific cultural and time dependent context, then why do we assume that terms derived from such contexts like “homophobia” and “misogyny” are universally applicable and can be compared across different regions and areas of the globe?

This is not to discredit the admirable goal of internationalism, of universalising the struggle, but we then have to ask ourselves if this “internationalism” is based on actual applicability of it’s critique to the entire world or merely a projection based on false conceptions, with aid from the cultural and political hegemony of US-led Capital?

Also I’d like to note: if the Communists and “Progressives” were correct and listened to the masses in the Islamic World, they would have won. But they did not. So who is at fault here?

[-] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago

If we are to believe that gender and sexuality are socially situated within a specific cultural and time dependent context, then why do we assume that terms derived from such contexts like “homophobia” and “misogyny” are universally applicable and can be compared across different regions and areas of the globe?

because eurochristians exported that bullshit and imposed it upon most of the world?

implying muslim cultures aren't predominantly heteropatriarchal is probably some kind of orientalism

[-] boboblaw@hexbear.net 2 points 10 hours ago

One of them Muslim cultures:

(WARNING: heteropatriarchal)

[-] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 points 9 hours ago

got a long way to go before we invalidate my "predominantly" qualifier. there are feminists who don't reject christianity for whatever reason too, it doesn't change my baseline expectations of reactionary or "moderate" christians.

[-] boboblaw@hexbear.net 1 points 7 hours ago

I don't see how there's anything necessarily bad inherent in Christianity. That Jesus guy seems like a pretty cool dude. kind of a revolutionary figure.

He was big on pacifism, and the guys that killed him co-opted his name and went on killing in his name. Kinda messed up to conclude that his ideas are responsible for the killing.

This has happened with countless groups over the centuries. Those truly following the teachings of Christ won't murder at the behest of empire? Exterminate those heretics and replace them with ones that will follow orders and pay lip service.

In modern times, any Muslim state that tries to do anything remotely good will be decimated by the US, who will then support the most violent reactionaries in the region.

Are all the oppressive reactionary Muslim states to be blamed on the nature of Islam?

Personally, I see religion as a versatile tool. People get so many different things out of it.

[-] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 points 7 hours ago

you are not the authority of "true" christianity. worshiping a genocidal entity is bad, full stop.

[-] boboblaw@hexbear.net 1 points 18 minutes ago

you are not the authority of "true" christianity.

I'm not the authority of Christianity, that would be Christ. Christianity is the teachings of Christ, yes?

I don't think any of the above is controversial, so I hope we can agree on this basic definition.

And yes, the teachings of Christ include what one could argue is the "worship of a genocidal entity".

But do you not feel utterly ridiculous?

Like your immediate response to the sermon on the mount is "fuck you you worship a genocidal entity"?

Your immediate response to John Brown is "bro you worship a genocidal entity"?

Your immediate response to Malcolm X is "you worship a genocidal entity (and in the worst way bc Islam)"?

Can you so casually dismiss every religious person who has fought, struggled and died for a just cause? Because they believed in the Abrahamic god, while you're here smugly patting yourself on the back for having the correct opinions?

[-] afters@hexbear.net 3 points 20 hours ago

implying muslim cultures aren't predominantly heteropatriarchal is probably some kind of orientalism

what the fuck am I reading

[-] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 11 points 1 day ago

I'm glad you responded because that is a damn good comment

this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2024
53 points (100.0% liked)

askchapo

22744 readers
366 users here now

Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer ~~thought-provoking~~ questions.

Rules:

  1. Posts must ask a question.

  2. If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.

  3. Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.

  4. Try !feedback@hexbear.net if you're having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS