this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2024
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Basically a repost pf things I said in the mega, but anecdotally I'm hearing that sales of fiction read by men are dropping precipitously, and English and literature classes in colleges are now dominated by women. It seems like young men are not being exposed to literature in the same way that they used to. Like, when I was in high school and college, you could be a "bro" kind of guy and read Chuck Palahniuk, or Hunter S. Thompson, or David Foster Wallace. For decades, authors like Hemmingway and Bukowski found receptive audiences in young men, not to mention all the crime fiction, horror, sci-fi, and fantasy that men have traditionally consumed. The "guy in your English class who loves David Foster Wallace" was a stereotype for a reason. I read in another thread that music is less culturally important to young men than it used to be. It seems like younger men just straight up see no value in reading literature or fiction, or exposing themselves or critically engaging with art and music, because the algorithms just railroad them into Alpha Gridset world.

Am I wrong about this? Am I being condescending and out of touch, or is this a real thing that's happening, where the whole "male" culture is turning into grindset podcasts and streamers?

Edit: Okay, so the impression I'm getting is that everything is worse but also kind of the same as it ever was, which sounds right.

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[–] Andrzej3K@hexbear.net 54 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

I don't know if it's attention spans or w/e but it does feel like fewer people of all generations are reading now, and when they do read, they just want slop. Anything that demands engagement or effort from the reader is denounced as 'badly written'. It drives me a bit mad tbh, because at the same time that people smugly reject good literature, you can see that they're unfulfilled reading the same old dreck for the millionth time.

A common thing I used to see on Book Twitter was people complaining at the lack of beautifully written prose that focuses on the interior life and I just want to scream THAT'S MODERNISM YOU'RE DESCRIBING MODERNISM, READ THE WAVES, PLEASE READ THE WAVES, IT WILL MOVE YOU SO DEEPLY, but the thing is that while they want that, they also only read YA dystopian fiction written in the past simple as an iron rule.

[–] GeorgeZBush@hexbear.net 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Most conversations I have with people my age start with "I saw this Tiktok...". Very dire. Don't care if I sound like a cranky boomer.

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 28 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Eh, this one is a funny point tbh, do you get the same reaction when someone says "I saw this YouTube video" or "I saw this on the news" etc?

[–] GeorgeZBush@hexbear.net 16 points 10 months ago

Depends on the context really, but yeah, sometimes. I don't mind any of it if other things get discussed, but it gets tiresome after a while.

[–] AndJusticeForAll@hexbear.net 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

No one has ever been "i saw _____ on youtube" and it ever been anything morally good, very occasionally my IRL friend will reference a YT video essay or something, but otherwise it's usually something frivolous (not necessarily bad) or some heinous culture war shit.

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 15 points 10 months ago

No one has ever been "i saw _____ on youtube"

I guess, but it's usually "this video is cool" or something like that. But it's usually a YouTube link

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago

do you get the same reaction when someone says "I saw this YouTube video"

How could you not?

[–] Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)

but the thing is that while they want that, they also only read YA dystopian fiction written in the past simple as an iron rule.

I was watching a YouTube video yesterday tmaking fun of YA dystopian fiction and there were endless comments about how great the Hunger Games is. A lot of "Best book ever! Someday it will be seen as proper literature!" Granted, I haven't read the book (only saw the movies), but it was Battle Royale in the future instead of the present day.

I dunno. I want to let people enjoy things, but I also think a lot of this stuff is just shit. Battle Royale was already pulp, so Hunger Games being a copy is even more pulp. The same goes for 50 Shades of Gray being Twilight fan fiction turned into a whole series.

[–] Andrzej3K@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago

I want people to enjoy things, and there's nothing wrong with trash! I enjoy a lot of trash! But there's so much more!

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

but philosophical letters by voltaire is basically slop as is candide which is also by him.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Is it a bad thing that Pangloss was what made me seriously question my own apathy and conformism? I can see why Candide is kinda slop but I think if everyone read Candide we'd have a lot more people interested in actually changing the world, IDK.

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not at all it had (if im understanding correctly) the same on me when i first read it in my teens. I genuinely thought pangloss was the bees knees

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago

Right, and I think that this idea of "the world is exactly as it ought to be" is just such an important tenet of liberalism (ironic since Voltaire is one of the most important thinkers behind liberalism, someone more educated on philosophy can probably explain the contradiction there) and I think that breaking out of that bliss is so important for building a pro-social worldview. A better world is actually possible!