91
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
91 points (84.2% liked)
MeanwhileOnGrad
1310 readers
146 users here now
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Well they didnt avoid military personnel, they grabbed whoever they could. Its a bit different too when you consider all Israelis serve in their military by default.
How about this, you tell me what they should have done instead? Continued on as they were? Are you aware the IDF was killing a palestinian child per week all through 2023, PRIOR to October 7th?
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank
I'm not saying its right to hurt people, I'm saying there is only so much a community can take before things like this happen, and now its being used as an excuse to further kill and steal land, which is wrong.
Or how about foreign countries lobbying our government? Bad right? If russia had a PAC and was donating money to get laws passed that are favorable to Russia, we would rightly protest across the nation.
We allow the exact same thing for Israel and protesting that fact is now illegal in America. How's that for moral consistency?
Rape is not resistance.
You tell em brother.
Oh, they didn't avoid military personnel when killing civilians, if they had avoided military personnel when killing civilians, like all the truly great terrorists do, THEN it would be condemnable.
Jesus fucking Christ. I ask you to take a step back and re-examine this statement and its implications.
You do realize that a massive attack on an occupying power does not actually have to target civilians, right?
Yes, I am well-aware. I've condemned the situation in Palestine as a genocide many, many times before October 7th.
Before... what? Before a mafia pseudostate triggers an intensified period of war with the occupying power which looks damn well like it might result in a serious incident of genocide far in excess of previous attempts, by launching an attack by paramilitary forces on the ground (as opposed to rockets or bombs) that targeted civilians, because they want to puff themselves up to hold onto power?
Agreed,
Yep. AIPAC's influence is awful, and should be strongly opposed, especially considering how deeply they've woven themselves into the current party system. Not really sure what that has to do with Hamas targeting civilians, though.
Don't be silly.
I think its hypocritical everyone seems understanding of the Palestinians but wants to shout at them they are doing it wrong. They were already facing cultural genocide, it was already awful before the 7th.
Unless you lived in Gaza at the time I dont think westerners should be sitting here virtue signaling.
Americans do understand the occupier vs occupied you'd think considering their history with Britain, or Americas history with the "third world" but suddenly this one doesnt count.
The people being abused had been lashing out in every way they could before with no response. Its absurd to sit here and say the one thing they did that caused global outrage against Israel for their treatment of Palestinians was the wrong thing to do.
I would never hurt anyone, but im not Palestinian nor do I live under those conditions. If I did, I'd likely have a different perspective.
If you think targeting civilians in ethnic cleansing isn't doing it wrong because you prefer their side of the conflict, we have nothing to talk about. Your position is no different than the excuses given by the Zionists.
I'm just not being a hyprocrit who says they agree with the Palestinians but knows better than them how to help their people.
This wasn't the first attempt at a solution, this is nearly 80 years of events leading up to something.
The crowd of people who are using this as an opportunity to hang their perfect morals in front of the general public are cowards.
Except it's not. It's not 'leading up to something' like this was some bold, grand strike that's never been tried before. This has been tried numerous times before, and the reaction from Israel is always the same. This isn't 80 years of events leading up to something - this is an 80 year pattern whose only change is that Israel seems ready to right and truly finish their genocide attempt in Gaza - or make significant 'progress' in doing so.
So they should just give up right? What's the way you would take to achieve peace as a Palestinian living in Gaza?
This may be radical, but you can perform attacks on an occupier without going out of your way to target civilians. Shocking, I know.
Collateral damage happens. Shit happens, especially with a less disciplined and organized force. But I'm not going to pretend that Hamas going in and murdering and kidnapping a bunch of civilians in addition to soldiers is some kind of laudable or acceptable course of action, nor will I pretend that it's in some way wise or groundbreaking. This is the same old shit that's been going on for the past 80 years - Israel is just feeling bold enough to respond the way the Israeli right has wanted to for a long time.
Israel was going to commit genocide either way, quietly or loudly. Now they are forced to be loud about it the whole world can see what's really happening.
What israel has done to Palestinians is far worse than what happened on a single day in October.
You still haven't said what they should have done, unless thats what you meant by vaguely saying to avoid citizens? If Hamas attacked and killed 1300 Israeli soldiers at a base or something, I don't think people would be nearly as critical of Israel as they are now.
Hamas exposes how Israel treats its own citizens, by refusing to make any deal for their freedom, and initiating the Hannibal directive on the day of the attack. When Israel says their citizens are better off dead than hostages, you have to wonder what the goal there is.
I'm sure that's great comfort to the two million people in Gaza right now, that Israel has managed to herd them into concentrated areas and is ruthlessly bombing the entire strip, that they can take solace in that the 40,000+ Gazans killed have been killed 'loudly'.
... okay? What the fuck does that have to do with anything? This is just more whataboutism.
What.
You don't think that if Israel was committing genocide after Hamas performed an attack in which no significant amount of civilians were killed, the world would be more critical?
Like, "Hamas are shitheads who target civilians" is one of Israel's best propaganda lines, in part because the best propaganda includes some truth. Holy fucking shit, the idea that killing civilians is the way to get the world on your side is fucking deluded.
I'm sorry that you think that murdering civilians is a legitimate tactic. I hope you get help.
It would be far easier for Israel and the US to frame it as an actual war with the government of gaza. Theres a good chance it would fall just as flat as now, but people I think would be less inclined to ask why Hamas did what they did in that case, or ask what's going on over there in general.
You are acting like there was a better option and all its showing is how simple you think this all is, like its some TV show.
Like I said ive never been in a position where I would consider hurting someone but I'm going to sit here and act like I know better than the actual people involved in the conflict. Its bullshit virtue signaling, and you have no idea what you would do if you were in their shoes.
"You don't understand, we HAD to target civilians for this to work!"
Hamas simp, or Zionist simp? The only difference is what flag they wave.
Better than a virtue signaling american that uses the world problems to put themselves on a pedestal.
"Oh I understand sweet child, I just would never stoop so low."
Is that the gist of your position? Still havent explained your novel solution that has yet to be tried numerous times. Why don't you bring up all the times Palestinians rejected one sided deals from Israel for "peace" while you are at it.
Victim blaming bullshit.
lmao
You said that without the least bit of irony, didn't you?
"Victim blaming bullshit", says the one advocating for the murder of civilians. If people like you had the power, you'd be rounding up Israelis in concentration camps just like the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians now, under the guise of "It's the only way!"
Fascists like you are all the same.
I'm advocating for not putting yourself above a whole group of people for internet points you dumb fuck.
A whole group of people like, say, Israeli civilians being intentionally targeted by Hamas?
For all your moralizing and tut-tutting, you're awfully keen to justify murdering civilians.
And you seem to like to entirely misconstrue my position. If the only way you can deal with this conversation is to attack a strawman then thats your problem.
If you think that not choosing violence when someone cuts you off in traffic is exactly the same as not choosing violence when your culture is being invaded by a group of people that steals your land and rapes, imprisons, and kills your family members I don't know what to tell you.
My position is that you have no idea what you would do under the same circumstances. Hopefully there would be a nonviolent solution to all problems but sometimes there just isnt one.
Sort of like how Israel couldn't find a nonviolent solution to taking over the west bank and gaza and pushing out Palestinians. Why aren't you critical of all the violence Israel commits on Palestinians?
A child per week was murdered by the IDF the whole year leading up to October 7th, but you want to say it was Hamas or Palestine that brought the violence to Israel?
If you think that choosing to murder civilians is acceptable because it gets people's attention, well, I don't know what to tell you.
I've been calling the Israeli genocide a genocide since before Lemmy existed, lmao, but sure, anyone who thinks that civilians shouldn't be murdered is a secret Zionist, you got me.
Oh, okay, like how you can counter-rape, or rape in self-defense, right? Two wrongs make a right, especially if both of them are utterly worthless acts from a strategic standpoint. They're just bringing the rape-sorry, violence against civilians, to Israel. Totally fine! If you're a sociopath or a fucking Nazi piece of shit. :)
So you are spectating for internet points, like I said.
I literally stated the opposite of what you are accusing me of saying.
Is it so hard for you to just admit you aren't any different than the people in Gaza or in Hamas, that if you lived their lives you might do the exact same thing.
Its funny you are virtue signaling compassion for the Palestinians while also treating them like immature children who need to be told not to hit their neighbor.
Go ahead and reply again putting words in my mouth and then write a couple paragraphs about how great of a person you are and how you'd never do anything so low.
lmao. I'm not a great person. I'm just not simping for murdering civilians, unlike you.
Right, Pugjesus the pacifist. You've changed me, if only both sides would reject violence, the problem would be solved!
If you leave right now you can make it just in time to give this message to both leaders and stop all of this!
Do you want to take my butt spanking paddle with you?
Seriously though, did I break your brain? Not having a better solution does not equal simping for murdering civilians. Does that work? If you really think that the people who committed the attack on October 7th are any different than you and I, then I can't help you.
You are the one treating people like children on both sides. You pass judgment without having been involved, which makes your judement worthless, which is why I'm calling it virtue signaling. The only thing you get from this is now people know Pugjesus is anti-murder, whatever thats supposed to mean.
I'm saying not to judge people you don't understand, in situations you've never experienced. Of course violence is wrong buy if everyone who felt that way never committed violence then the world would be incredibly safe. Normal people can be pushed to extremes, and this is why people aren't focusing on the attack on the 7th and instead talking about before and after.
Let me reiterate:
Have a nice day simping for genocide.
Murder is bad. I don't know what a better answer for that conflict is. I'll call it the wrong choice once someone figures out what the right one was. If thats simping to you then oh well.
Goodness, if only there was some kind of distinction between combatants and non-combatants that was generally accepted as valid. I guess we'll never know anything like that, though, we have to target civilians.
Whatever makes you feel better man.