Peanutbjelly

Love how this always gets downvoted, but i grew up around foster kids in that area, and I promise you his effort would have saved lives.

Same with atheists who were trying to make genital mutilation blanket illegal in the states, as well as fighting groups like the heritage foundation who want to keep such classic patriarchal standards alive, but being against that means you obviously hate women and think MGM is worse than FGM, and other strawmen. It was enough to make both progressive groups hate each other, with accusations of SJWs or incels based on similar legitimate grievances on both sides.

Heritage foundation types have obviously been making record ground in the meantime.

For some reason progressive solidarity just isn't possible, because we can't help the wrong group of struggling people. Social signalling is obviously more important than cooperatively helping those who are suffering, or in stopping the wealthy from shaping the system to fuck everyone that isn't already part of their grotesque fascist system.

Can't stop the actual fascists if other progressives are all the real enemy for some incomprehensible reason that always makes it back to stupid issues like this, where we just can't recognize the niche situation, or show basic compassion or solidarity within.

As long as we keep "punching up" we can ignore the foster kids who died alone, or festered into something negative because all they ever had was a non-life where they are simultaneously exploited and told they don't deserve help because they share some intersectional features of privilege, as explained by people who obviously never fully understood intersectionality or how such high dimensional representations can be reasonably interpreted. Usually protected by some socialized bubble of privilege where they can just go with what is being socialized and not think too hard about it.

So it's all a clusterfuck of people using the same words to say different things, and ignoring the forest for the trees.

But surely the problem is the incels, or SJWs, and not the system that exploits both and discourages either from co-constructively solving general problems of inequality.

Or just beat up the undiagnosed poverty autistic waiting to access the library, while feeling good about how much you are fighting the system of oppression.

Or like in silverman's place, bully the person trying to help a group that doesn't actually have access to help, and try to shame people who mention that crushing the potential men's shelter did not actually do anything to benefit any progressive values.

These aren't the billionaires or entrenched oligarchs that are actively shaping a society that individualizes blame in ways that ensure you never look at the lobby groups, or war machine, or people with the money generally fucking the system into their preferred fascist shape. Let's go after the fucking homeless instead I guess, because they are the truly privileged oppressors.

ah, dart is someone from a reactionary group towards an extremely niche mashup between /r/deepthoughts and /r/fifthworldproblems.

i am not dart, but you might be surprised about how many people don't capitalize. right now i'm thinking of the character alphys from undertale, who also doesn't use caps unless writing official documents. i am also not alphys.

i think my refusal to capitalize comes from a an over-weighted desire for personal autonomy, so maybe they have a similar urge for autonomy. being aware of high dimensional intersectionality, i would hope you don't assume too much else about me via the one data point. sorry to disappoint otherwise.

remember that we're really good at finding patterns in the environment. if you don't have a wide bayesian basin to ground those patterns, you might confabulate some weird connections or explanations.

in more schizotypal behaviour you often see such apophenia become overly salient.

if you have the adventurous lifestyle to try delving into that FEP stuff i linked into my earlier comment, the same guy "karl friston" did a cool precision-weighting based overview on schizophrenia called the dysconnection hypothesis. but digression aside, making too many confabulations in your local model around sparsely connected patters without that "wide bayesian basin" i mention, means you end up with weird beliefs or expectations becoming salient enough to drown out more robustly grounded expectations, leading to odd beliefs and actions.

why the rants? i just want to comprehend the world around me. difficult when the most salient social structures reward sycophantic energy reducing behaviours over energy consuming 'dissertation level' conversations.

if you have to exist in diverse environments, the local minima won't always transfer, and leads to friction.

i just want people enough on the same page that the world isn't run by the least intellectually qualified people you could imagine. we all out here minimizing free energy, and the energy saving culture of running on social heuristics is much more memetic than trying to absorb all of the complexity that the academic eggheads are usually peacocking around. i just want more artists and social communicators to participate and help mediate between the complexity and our shared culture and behaviours, such as the conflict in OP's post. yadda yadda.

i wish you better luck in your future sparse pattern recognition, and uh, CIA endeavours.

if you actually read this far, i appreciate the energy you gave to comprehending this stuff, even if you confused the heck out of me with your intent and comparison.

i don't even know if i'm supposed to be offended. what is a "dart?" i tried searching on reddit and only found the sport and "dallas area rapid transit."

also why is my lifelong vendetta against capitalization while on keyboard putting me into some kind of niche group?

and i talk about confabulations because i've got that weird intense interest in complex systems. confabulation is really important, especially in psychology, because a lot of the time we are making our best guess when making sense of our more basal 'surprise' reactions to prediction error. while maintaining some sort of allostasis/non-equilibrium-steady-state. in english, we are largely just winging it and finding what works, and then socially confirming it.

which brings you to social sciences and epistemology, as "social constructs" are also confabulated in similar ways. we all out here sharing the most simple "sense making" map/heuristic via the most memetic/simple stories that we can socially confirm into our lived reality. the "simplified" comes from that 'free energy principle' thing i linked, which in addition to the surprisal systems, deals with finding the simplest useful map (but no simpler, that's how you overfit/overspecialize.) to save energy well enough to keep our general amalgam of patterns from dissolving. for us that is "surviving and thriving." big topic, but i'll avoid writing an essay to describe it all, but i recommend looking into that general area of study.

this larger area of study really helps when framing socio-political topics, so i wish more people would confabulate a shared lifestyle that isn't immune to actively engaging with these concepts, despite taking a fair amount of energy, while we're all being energy starved by our existing system that is really good at adapting to and maximally exploiting our available energy.

which is all to say, why i hope your association is of a random group you thought was a neat wild catch, and not some negative association for easy energy saving thought termination for the topic at hand.

:/

it's both. you have groups that socially confirm themselves out of any attempt to actively re-align with reality rather than their own confabulations. dangerous, powerful, and cancerous cults completely detached from any rationality.

then you have weird framing problems that has us finding progressives fighting each other, because they've created oversimplified heuristic ideas of the larger or more complex reality than has been represented by their narrow, and likely emotionally salient local environment. this can be exploited to make people fight each-other when they don't actually have a reason to, purely because they cannot broaden their understanding of both their local and the other person's environment simultaneously. especially when there is social pressure to prove you are not behaving like "the enemy," otherwise you get ostracized. this is also often due to local groups 'creating' their own reality via the sensible bias gained from their lived experience, so it's only unreasonable once you understand the broader perspective.

like if someone moved into the city and jumped every time they see a garden hose in the corner of their vision, because they've grown into an environment where survival depends on making long tubes in the grass especially salient.

the city dwellers laugh and make fun of them for being a weird loser, and ostracize them causing the person suffering due to not fitting the environment. if the city dwellers moved to the dangerous snake area, maybe they would die from failure to react to a snake.

imagine the family of the snake-area person getting upset at the city people for the legitimate grievance caused to their social member, and the city people felt likewise. now you have a war for no reason other than people are stupid.

now if people with a lot of money and power in both areas felt they could better control their people by intentionally stoking this fire, then you have even more stupid warring.

we're due for a modern re-framing on rights and personal autonomy.

but we might need to design it fully as local coops and roll over the epstein-class in order to get it enshrined.

if you let them change it, they'll, (as obtusely as possible,) re-phrase everything to not actually accomplish what it was supposed to.

we need big changes, and we need them yesterday, because the future is here and it's fucking us all up. the only people with the time and social placement to affect change are the ones that have been coddled into that position through either nepotism or corporate interest. yadda.

still need voter reform... hopefully the next people voted in specifically on voter reform don't just go "oops actually we weren't for that at all, hee hee." (canadian liberal party are also just the backup conservatives i guess)

and my god, there should be some accountability for directly lying to and misleading the voter base. the number of USA politicians i see that can't answer a fucking question is embarrassing to anyone thinking they don't live in a fascist state.

like, those promises, or statements, or blatant intentional incompetence should come with some form of accountability. if i fuck up too many lattes i have to live on the street, but politicians can laugh in your face after doing fuckall and taking your money.

generally anyone willing to take a position of power to hugely affect all of our lives and well being should be scared shitless for betraying their voters so blatantly.

more than anything we just need a whole new damned system which is built on modern science and not hundred years ancient aristocracy. it is possible. the only reason it doesn't seem feasible is that the people with power and influence have been spending a weird amount of their excess ensuring that the system doesn't enable or benefit anyone outside of the epstein class.

yadda yadda rant rant, i'm tired.

"look the guy who spends all day every day saying things said a cringe thing once! stop listening to him about israel and billionaires!"

there's a huge hasan smear campaign by corpo "democrats" right now, because obviously he's the real danger for some reason and not the cheeto rapist in power.

when people are calling democrats controlled opposition, this is what they mean.

remember hasan's dog? don't think about the entrenched democrats actively enabling the fascist takeover. don't think about their support for funding israel's genocide of gaza. what if his dog possibly potentially had a shock collar because the way it moved once! keep hasan on the defensive so he isn't talking about israel or billionaires!

etc.

i definitely am not the biggest hasan fan, but i find myself defending him regularly from absolute bullshit.

if there's was ever a time to be picky about hasan's choice of emotionally biased statements on non-issues, this is really not it.

As someone deeply interested in the tech used behind this stuff, this is absolutely a terrible idea that only allows an excuse to harass people without actual reason.

Even if there wasn't the same behaviour and sordid history with mind reading tactics based around the cop feeling "something is off" which, funny enough, happens to trigger when dealing with people of different culture or neurotype.

Now the technology being used famously has a problem with low data samples, which would also translate into "minority groups."

This isn't "evil technology," it's evil opportunists that found an opportunity, using a tool for something we know isn't robust enough for such serious context.

If it's weren't AI it would be the charlatans around mind reading and micro expressions.

We need accountability for those with power who use said power maliciously or deceptively.

And beyond that, we all need a focus on the 1984 behaviour, as there is a weird global fascist push to protect the current power structure.

" gets so much traction with dudes acting like its a mayor cultural abuse of men while scarcely connecting to other genital mutilation happening to women"

FGM is already illegal in the states, otherwise i'm sure the constant comparison would matter more. also why are we making zero sum games for progressives when making a progressive safe environment would give more rights to everyone?

this is one of the frustrating points of contention that managed to get atheists and feminists fighting each-other rather than fighting groups like the heritage foundation well over a decade ago. i legitimately believe a lot of people pushing the need to suggest that somehow people are pretending FGM is being dismissed whenever addressing MGM are just bots/instigators trying to get people fighting. that is stupid. nobody is arguing this. why are we making this divisive bullshit salient and real?

"all genital mutilation is bad. it's fucked up that it's still legal in any capacity." =/= "we hate women."

even almost twenty years ago, saying "this is stupid, we should be supporting each-other progressively in rights and freedoms against thing like religious mutilation of baby genitals, and stopping religiously empowered political groups from dominating the discourse," earned an inbox full of mutilated penis imagery, because somehow feminism is supposed to somehow be incompatible with a world where male babies don't get their genitals mutilated to show that it's just "not as bad" or something. ignore the kids who die from infection or w/e.

this was successfully made into the dominant social response in any context.

then we saw a couple decades of atheists and feminists being too distracted defending against incel/SJW branding to do anything about the fascist takeover, and progressives, dejected, vacated spaces allowing whole new incel chud armies to breed and take over. you'd think some would see this as a backfiring, but "it proves our point" so we won't think about that.

i just wish i would stop seeing the same completely unnecessary divisive arguments that have helped groups like the heritage foundation get into power to remove rights for EVERYONE.

helping men =/= helping the patriarchy.

luckily, it looks like this thread is full of non-divisive conversation on the subject. this makes me happier.

heritage foundation types are destroying the world, we need solidarity and action focused at the problem, rather than anger at trans people wanting basic human rights, or at atheists/activists for wanting to remove classic religious patriarchal baby genital cutting traditions, because being against that makes you the patriarchy somehow. etc.

Not going to deny that some people totally do just use their trivia knowledge to try and peacock for social dominance, but I don't think those people are ever actually intellectuals, due to the nature and reasoning behind their behaviour.

I do see a lot of people who interpret passing on knowledge as some kind of ego play, when it's literally just that you would think they also would appreciate not doing something stupid just because ego shouldn't be offended by the very concept of learning. Or worse, when the evidence suggests something that is against the social grain, and basically a guarantee to get you lynched for even trying, usual with a collective pretense of op's reasoning. Because it can never just be about collective learning as a culture that benefits our species and protects us from the ongoing global shit fire.

Although more people need to understand it as predictive models and specific epistemic observer positions/eco-niche familiarity where you can run into that whole Dunning Kruger problem and/or poor precision weighting on the robustness of your current set of Bayesian predictors. Usually being interpreted entirely through vibes and social agreement these days. There are some really fun papers around how much social opinion can hack your opinion of you don't learn to grow and favor more robust sources of information.

Like people who are super confident that their carnivorous pet would be healthier as a vegan, because they have "veggies are healthy" overweighted and over-generalized, and they see your confidence in the vet's more robust understanding of the situation as some kind of ego power play, because why would people fit their knowledge for actually understanding the world rather than overspecializing into the monkey hierarchy dominance ques.

I could give a lot more examples, and how cults and the like are really good at hacking these same failures of robustness to intentionally fuck up precision weighting to ensure the world model stays fucked up and hackable for their authoritative source. Or the wombo combo that leads to the USA HHS promoting Andrew Wakefield, as If it isn't the most thoroughly and robustly rebuked set of lies that ever got momentarily snuck into a science journal.

But remember, the intellectuals are cringe and their attempts to help the public become more informed are just too annoying, because updating your misinformed world view takes energy, and this anti intellectual culture totally has no affect on the current fucked up global situation. Also politics are cringe too. Any kind of caring is cringe, and we need to dunk on it to maintain our monkey hierarchy luster. Easy to socialize against these terrible energy consuming intellectuals and their weird philosophical eco-niche. /s

This really is the most stupid timeline. I half expect to get banned for not just doing the social thing and going "yeah ha ha, fuck the stupid pompous intellectual for making me feel stupid for encouraging me to update my priors or precision weighting when it might be important.

"caused by AI"

If I ask AI how to make coffee for a person, and the AI temperature is set high, and it tells me to add cyanide, I would not suggest that the person's death was "caused by AI."

I would be responsible for how i act without thinking or double checking on whether or not the AI was confabulating or offering information that could be externally verified.

Stop yelling at computers when the actual reason is either murderous intent or murderous incompetence.

Accountability for the people in charge.

Great power should come with great accountability, not freedom from accountability.

Actually evil.

This exists for no reason other than to intentionally harm a small and already marginalized group.

It's a shame that fighting groups like the heritage foundation needed to take a couple decade backseat for insane cultural warring based entirely on misrepresenting each other and refusing to communicate.

And trying to point out that fact got you labeled as "enemy group" by everyone involved, and most people aren't involved enough to tell the difference between things like faux opposition within the establishment, and legitimate progressive groups with separate but legitimate grievances.

Get the peasants fighting the peasants, because if you pump enough noise into the environment, people just stop trying to comprehend outside of their bubble.

These monsters will destroy the world in order to apply their fickle bigotry.

Fuck the heritage foundation, bohemian grove, atlas network, and their myriad of other shapes used to obfuscate while affecting control. The rich have class solidarity, and they've done an amazing job getting everyone else to fight themselves.

Trans rights are human rights.

This is literally the work of foreign aggression. ATLAS network which is helping push this stuff is tied to groups like the heritage foundation. They have also directly met up with trump administration in support. Feeding separatism has been used both to destabilize, and as an excuse to "liberate" the oil from a country.

So fuck staying out of it.