OpenStars

Fwiw, severe concerns about human rights violations on Lemmy predate the very existence of Lemmy.world - yet somehow the pro-authoritarian, "free speech" advocates of AN are attacking LW rather than ML?

It is not a theoretical concern that the top thing that people think of when they discuss Lemmy... well actually it's our overall lack of content, plus generally worse UI (this one I believe has been fixed since then), plus difficulty of understanding it, but also it's our toxic userbase - which in no small measure also affects why we have so few users willing to remain active here. There are only so many calls for oneself to be murdered that someone is willing to take, before they nope right out and simply leave. Or at least lurk for answers to their questions but decide not to participate, seeing little value in exposing themselves to the onslaught that would result from making themselves vulnerable to such.

This is an Ad Hominem attack. Spelling and grammatical do not make an argument irrelevant

Strawman: I never said that it did.

as long as they don’t get involved in direct violence they shouldn’t be attacked

How do you know that this did not happen, plus anyway it is not your call to make. Empathy demands that at least the tiniest amount of consideration be offered to the recipient of an assault. In this case the one threatened with literal irl murder of everyone on the entire team.

The problem is that lemmy.world allow misinformation

Then defederate from it, problem solved! Or ban as many communities on it as you wish (even preemptively, even/especially those you've never visited or even so much as heard of) - something that happens A TON already on db0 btw. On your own instance, you can do whatever you like. What you cannot do however is control whether others are forced to listen to your whinging. All you may do is offer up your content for consideration, but the rest is out of your control.

You are quite welcome! I was not going to publicly call out your community by name, but it is so appreciated that the goal is to improve everyone's experience however that might best be accomplished. :-)

The threadiverse is already a small community. What would happen if we defederate from X instance ? (For Hexbear, that’s another problem.) Most users will leave and I’m not talking about us.

Partially true, particularly in the direction of defederation from LW that has something like 40% of Threadiverse users and iirc still the majority of the most highly active communities. But I want to point out the converse point that people (especially mainstream non-technical normal folks) are also leaving, citing as their reason why all the calls that they see for actual, irl murder of people. You said it yourself, Hexbear is a whole other problem, besides defederation from LW. So not defederating from instances (such as AN?) that ignores the considerations of the wider Fediverse is an even more destructive act than retaining federation.

Thus it is a balancing act, as the Paradox of Intolerance guides us: we want the absolute highest, maximum diversity of opinions, while stopping short of inclusion of those offerred in bad faith. And saying that you want to murder your debate opponent, rather than use your words to espouse the higher principles of your ideals and thereby potentially win the debate, as opposed to merely vomiting ones feelings upon the Fediverse community, especially against its wishes, definitely sounds to me like the epitome if bad faith? AN is entirely free to put out calls for actual, irl murder of the entire families of a fellow instance's admin teams if they wish, but in that case why should the recipient instances be forced into platforming those, rather than be free to block them?

I don't want yet another Hexbear in my feed, and I am tired of people telling me that I simply must put up with all the "free speech" that whoever - Elon Musk, Steve Huffman, Donald Trump, or whoever - wants to put in front of my eyes. It is not "unfair" to enforce previously announced rules - and calling for the actual irl murder of people seems to me to fall into that category?

I also note that PieFed offers the ability for a user to block an entire instance, whereas its technologically less-capable elder cousin Lemmy cannot keep up, thus necessitating full instance defederation not as the only possible option, but as the only one that the Lemmy software deigns to provide to new, non-technical normal people who want to view the Threadiverse, especially without an account, or soon thereafter before they learn to ignore all the toxicity coming from "certain instances". This is precisely what the Paradox of Intolerance tells us (among other things): that their messages (calls for murder) get counted as our messages, when someone does not know how to tell the difference.

I think it's G-A-S-T-R-O..., well, you get the idea 💡🤪

OP might have meant that even HB did not defed from AN?

Which is a logical fallacy, to assume that we know the reason why HB does anything - the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Plus, obviously it is lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml that are the pro-authoritarian ones, whereas HBears famously troll even their own so hard that they can barely keep the place running (once they even lost their domain name) - a beacon of sanity that place is NOT (so OP: hey let's be moar like them!?).

"Many people are saying"

The many logical flaws present in this, along with spelling and grammar errors, makes me somewhat dubious as to the veracity of its claims.

"Free speech" instances want their right to speak to override anyone else's right to not have to listen.

An authentic place to truly discuss matters sounds fantastic, but when one side calls for the actual irl murder of the other, somehow I doubt that any genuine discussion will be taking place. This is a known phenomena, called the Intolerance Paradox, which AN is fully aware of as it attempts to levy that charge against others, while simultaneously ignoring its implications applied to themselves.

There are literally dozens of us here, DOZENS!!