Look all of these Delicious Lemmy liberal Nonsense in this chat
this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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The liberal nonsense tastes rather yucky if you ask me. I'll pass on it.
Ya, show that to anyone who's actually lived under communism.
We have comrades from post-soviet countries here...and comrades from places like Vietnam and China...
China
Communist
Lmao, and the DPRK really is democratic.
Why does the west spend millions trying to topple China if they're not communists. Why is China immune to recession if they're not communist. Why have living standards risen for decades in China if they're not communist (which meanwhile hasn't happened in the west also in decades, with even the Nordic model going downhill)
You don't even have to read theory. This should be obvious
But if you could read theory (your reading level might actually be too low to understand Lenin or Marx or Mao, this isn't an insult, most westerners have a 6th grade reading level) you'd see thousands of pages of theory as to why capitalism was introduced.
You don't want to read or think tho, you wanna say gommunism no. No gommunism. You also won't read liberal theory to discover how bloodthirsty it is either or anarchist or really anything
I suggest starting with State and Revolution by Lenin if you're actually able to read better than a 19th century peasant. You'd be shocked how accurately he just describes reality as it is now
Why are you so angry bud? Me not taking what the government calls itself as gospel truth hardly warrants being called a 19th century peasant.
What did China start doing in the 80s that they didn't do from the 50s through most of the 70s?
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform](Maybe give this a quick read, you seem super duper smart so it should be pretty easy for you)
Meanwhile, under capitalism… everything seems fine! Pay no attention to all those homeless people slowly dying on the streets as a warning to the others to never get caught slippin’. Pay no attention to the formerly commonly-owned public works in Eastern Europe and now-Russia sold out from under the people to capitalists at the insistence of other capitalists and now left to rot and serve as something to “warn” ignorant westerners about while they ignore their own crumbling infrastructure.
But hey, the grandkids of some weirdo right wing Soviet citizens who came to the US under dubious circumstances told you communism is bad. So, hey, what can I say against that? Truth? Facts? Objective reality?
“No, no. You don’t understand. These grandkids of a piece of shit said this thing happened and we have to throw away all dreams and hopes of anything better.”
Yep, Vietnamese love it, so does Cuban and Chinese…
How about Ukraine or Georgia?
The old people were quite happy with it, and want to go back. Not all, but quite a sizable part of them do.
Yeah, they were all so happy they dissolved the USSR.
The 1991 Soviet referendum. 77% of the population voted to keep the Soviet Union.
How many of them were Russians? Russia was the biggest part of the USSR and they didn't dissolve the union but the other (smaller) states left.
The referendum did not include the states that already left (like the Baltic states and Armenia). Russia was the largest state but they actually were one of the lowest who voted to keep (above 70% I believe). The central Asian states voted the highest to keep the union (over 90%). Belarus and Azerbaijan were also very high.
The dissolution was not only illegal but clearly against the will of the people.
Damn, that's crazy.
Isn't it? And yet some crazy drunkard decided to not care about the people.
The dude you’re replying to is being a sarcastic piece of shit btw
Several crazy drunkards, arguably. We must not forget the role Kravchuk and Shushkevich played. Especially Kravchuk.
What's with all this pro-communist crap on lemmy?
We're down with Democratic socialism. They aren't the same.
We are communists in Lemmygrad. Are you lost buddy?
“Democratic socialism” is bullshit… Like if the burgeoise are just going to hand out the power because you vote “hard”. You are sooo deluded. Stop living in a dreamland.
My bad, I didn't realize we were on your weird propaganda instance.
you’re the one who’s from lemmy.world, and here you are calling us a “propaganda instance” you fucking shitlib.
Dude, you are the one who has been brainwashed by decades of Red Scare propaganda done by the West. Also, many many people on your instance are commies too. I constantly post commie stuff on your instance and get thousands of upvotes.
Looks at most recent post sees -7 votes
Just curious...
Since communism isn't illegal in western countries, and there's literally nothing stopping a bunch of comrades from starting a business where the workers maintain control over the means of production, where are all the successful communist companies?
Like if communism is sooooo superior to capitalism, why aren't communist operated businesses dominating the world?
New businesses are started all the time, so you would think there would be at least one successful communist company. Where are they?
Since communism isn’t illegal in western countries, and there’s literally nothing stopping a bunch of comrades from starting a business where the workers maintain control over the means of production,
Yes, this is called China, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, North Korea, and the former USSR (and many others)
E: also not being snarky, mondragon and basically all co-ops are working as you suggest. Did you not know what a worker co-op was??
What is a communist business? How is it different from a normal business?
“A communist company”
Do you ever think before you say? Please at least do some fucking research before you say stupid shit like this. It might help you in the future.
Capitalism doesn't allow for socialism to exist within it. Under capitalism only cut throat business flourish. Trying to have an island of communism thrive on a sea of capitalism is like trying to plant apples in the desert. Only when the entire system becomes communist, it can thrive since capitalism is made for only to capitalism to make it. A company that values people over profits will be drive out of business by one that sells cheaper products by cutting all benefits to their employees and by paying them shit. That is why changing the whole system is the only way to go forward.
yeah right? if economic planning was superior to market uncertainty like all those stupid commies say then big capitalist firms would employ it internally!
https://library.lol/main/C081B7B0E45D0F32074D78F3E8EDF0A0 <--- there's nothing in this link please don't click
If those Libs bothered to read they'd be Marxists.
This is the epitome of
“iPhone? Capitalism! Ugg uhh! GOOD!”
“No iPhone! COMMUNISM! Ugg uhh! NO GOOD!”
You have no fucking clue what words mean. Communism describes an economic system of nations (typically). It doesn’t describe companies. Nor does capitalism.
What you’re asking about (you’re not really asking for anything- you’re just a terrible right wing troll) is called a worker co-op. Which do exist sometimes and a few have been successful.
But that’s irrelevant because we’re discussing a system under which rich guy’s whose family stole land/wealth (primitive accumulation! Read!) does NOT get to be the Lord of his little fiefdom. His stolen, and do not think for a second it’s not stolen, assets/wealth/land would be taken back and held in common, in a state most likely, and workers would use these resources, factories, whatever, to produce commodities not for profit but for the betterment of society as a whole. Surplus value, profits, would be reinvested into society, not hoarded by capitalist dude or his family.
So, long story short, nothing changes. Except for one thing. The thieves at the top who stole are brought back down to earth. Possibly executed depending on their crimes coughEloncough or forcefully made a worker again- OH NO, THE HORRORS!
We're down with Democratic socialism. They aren't the same.
Who the fuck is "we", shitlib?
down with Democratic socialism
Long live revolution!
There are two components of the modern Western system, capitalism and liberalism. They are both flawed and breaking systems. If you're a democratic socialist, you have already concluded that capitalism is no good. However, liberalism is also a flawed, broke system. This extends beyond that liberalism in the way capitalism justifies itself. It is liberal democracy, an archaic system rooted in the same flaws as capitalism. If you take over or build liberal democracy with socialism, your endeavor will fail and probably become something like capitalism. You must change more than the words used and the goals of accountants; you must change how people relate to power.
I can't for the life of me figure out how you'd even separate liberalism and capitalism. They are almost synonyms. The two have gone hand in hand for almost 400 years.
That's my point; democratic socialism is attempting to do that, which is doomed.
Lol you commented in the wrong place! And SocDems are falling for fascist parties sooooooo fuck SocDems, fuck fascism and fuck capitalism.
Say it loud comrade!!
The dictatorship of the proletariat is the democratic expression of the working class interest, socialism IS democratic already so there's no need to try and retrofit the liberal definition of "democracy" to it.
“Democratic Socialists” believe that they can overthrow the bourgeoisie just by voting in the current system. That is why they add the “democratic” part.
The devs are literally commies, and the early adopters were all commies.