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Progress vs Regress (lemmygrad.ml)
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[-] purahna@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hate to rain on y'all's parade, but the US measure of literacy is much more stringent than China's. America is counting literacy as the ability to use print materials like brochures and manuals fluently, the rest of the world just bases literacy on the ability to read a handful of test sentences in a controlled testing context. That's the reason that America appears to have gone down as well, they switched literacy measures. The 79% measure is people who are "at or below level 1 literacy", meaning it counts people who met level 1, people who didn't meet level 1, and people who couldn't even take the test at all because of a language barrier or disability. https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179.pdf

I'm all for dunking on America but the apples to apples here would be comparing America's 96% (just excluding those below level 1) to China's 97%. Historical materialism requires a true material basis to work.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

yeah, fair points

[-] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Clearly this means the evil see see pee is stealing our literacy.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

It's worse, they're forcing people to be literate. This is cultural genocide on an industrial scale with see see pee wiping out the culture of illiteracy!

[-] plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago

Ok i thought for sure this is bullshit, but apparently not:

Four in five U.S. adults (79 percent) have English literacy skills sufficient to complete tasks that require comparing and contrasting information, paraphrasing, or making low-level inferences—literacy skills at level 2 or above in PIAAC (OECD 2013). In contrast, one in five U.S. adults (21 percent) has difficulty completing these tasks (figure 1). This translates into 43.0 million U.S. adults who possess low literacy skills

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp

[-] booty@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

I didn't believe it until I started working. Now if you asked me what the literacy rate is I'd say sub-50%. I've met so many people who literally cannot read. As in, they've clearly been taught what the letters are and how to sound them out, but following a list of instructions based on those letters is completely impossible for them.

[-] Trudge@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Your assessment is probably closer to the truth. 54% of American adults have a literacy below sixth grade level link and some of the people you've met probably are considered barely literate yet counts towards the 79%.

A curious statistic I've found while reading up on this is that 77% of African Americans have moderate or high reading proficiency while only 65% of white Americans qualify as such. A statistic that you'll never see racists mention (and libs for those that somehow fit outside the venn diagram)

[-] axont@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I haven't done any research on this, but my gut says it's because black people are more likely to live in urban areas with at least the basics of public education. Whereas white people comprise more rural areas. Not saying living in a rural area makes you illiterate, like I grew up in a small town in the woods, but it does mean there's just less of everything, including education. More homeschooling too among white people.

Could also be that white people take education less seriously because they don't feel threatened by a hostile job market. Did your readings say why there's a disparity between demographics?

[-] Trudge@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

It was just a cute factoid that I noted, so I didn't look further into the claims.

Your theory could be correct. Another reason I suspect is that due to racial biases and different job market situation arising from the urban/rural divide, black Americans are forced to be more literate in order to survive compared to the average white American.

[-] ApexHunter@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

There is no way US literacy in the 1950s was anywhere near 90% unless you excluded marginalized and minority populations.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Excellent point, and that's likely exactly how they counted it.

[-] Sickos@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] HiddenLayer5@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also, Chinese script, even simplified Chinese, is significantly harder to master than English. I for example can speak Mandarin fluently (as a Chinese person in Canada) but can barely read or write it, and no you don't just "pick it up" if you can speak it because there is zero correlation between the spoken language and written script, it's all memorization of every single character. I would have to actually take classes or something to learn to read and write Chinese, which I am definitely considering doing.

Actually, English is technically my second language since I was born in China (long story, left as a young child so wasn't my choice), and after having learned English and become fluent in both reading and writing it, I keep asking myself "how the hell can you be fluent in speaking English and not be fluent in writing it? If you know how to say a word you know 90% of how to write it unlike Chinese."

So, sorry anglophones, even if China had the same literacy rate as the US, it would still be more impressive (not of the intellect of Chinese people or any racial bullshit like that, but the effectiveness of their education system and socialist ideology, which English speakers are fully capable of implementing as well with no excuse not to.)

[-] AfricanExpansionist@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Chinese literacy isn't only characters. First, all children learn to read Pinyin. THEN they get taught classical characters.

[-] HiddenLayer5@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Chinese also has probably the most number of idioms and double meanings out of any language, most of which date back hundreds to thousands of years and are formatted for the time, basically the equivalent of if little snippets of Shakespearean were still in common use mixed in with modern English.

Remember that Western claim that Xi Jinping had banned idioms as a way to control Chinese people, a la Newspeak? Anyone who knows Chinese should know just how ridiculous that claim is, you'd have to ban Chinese language in its entirety to do that.

[-] HaSch@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

By linear extrapolation, one may conclude that China will reach its goal in 2025, while the US will only reach its goal in 2539

[-] dinklesplein@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago

well the stats come from the chinese government, are you just going to trust their stats? they're probably lying about the numbers, don't be so gullible!1!!11

[-] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago

This is the final refuge of the person that uses Chinese stat's to prove Uigher genocide through some sort of numerology

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[-] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Can someone fill me on the terms "homeless" vs. "unhoused"? Why is the latter being used more now?

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[-] lugal@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure if I get that correctly but are you making fun of people protesting against homelessness? Besides: I'm not a native speak but the sign seems totally fine to me and the message totally valid.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago

I think the pictures were chosen to contrast the conditions the kids are in. Kids in China are in classrooms getting education while children in US are protesting homelessness.

[-] lugal@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks!

[-] Treczoks@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

Does anyone think of the poor old GOP? The GOP needs stupid, illiterate people! Who else is going to vote for them if people got smarter and better educated?

[-] comfy@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

The Dems sure weren't thinking of the poor old GOP in the 42 years they simultaneously held both reps and senate in that era (58% of 72 years). The system needs stupid, illiterate people to tolerate it.

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this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2023
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