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I feel desirable but unlovable. (lemmy.zip)
submitted 8 months ago by Sombyr@lemmy.zip to c/chat@beehaw.org
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Couldn't find any venting communities on Lemmy, but if one exists please direct me to it. I'm fairly sick right now so I could have just missed one in my dazed state.

I've been dealing with a problem lately. Technically not just lately, but my whole life, but for the past few years it's something I didn't have to worry about.
I've always been a fairly popular person in whatever circles I take part in. People like me. They like my personality. They like my appearance. My friends value me extremely highly. All that's great. But when it comes to relationships, I always flop on my face.
Some people find me really attractive but don't want anything serious. Some people do want something serious, but get scared off the second they see what's hiding under the hood. Others just prefer me as a friend and would rather not complicate that with a relationship. But practically zero people both want anything serious and find themselves able to handle me and my mental issues.
There's only been one person ever who I ever had any semblance of a successful relationship with, and that was my first ex. We dated for two years, fell deeply in love, but still in the end broke up because of mental issues making being together too painful to deal with.

I'm just so afraid I'll never find anyone. I found the first person in the world who could handle my emotional outbursts completely unfazed recently, and she just wanted to be friends. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to have a friend as amazing as her. I'm just living in fear that I'll never be able to find somebody who can handle and understand me like she can, who does want to be anything more. I just want people to stop leaving because of my over-tuned emotions getting in the way.

And yeah, yeah, I know, "you don't need a relationship to be happy" and whatever. That's not the point. The point is I practically don't even have the option of a relationship in the first place because nobody can handle my deeper issues. I'm on numerous meds. I've tried therapy, and am still trying. I've done all I can on the road to self improvement and the only thing left I can do is find somebody who can handle what issues remain, and it doesn't look like that'll happen. It feels like I got a million romantic options and zero of them are good ones.

I know there's only one real solution, and that's to keep trying, and keep looking. I just needed to vent about it because the process of doing so is making me feel like shit and giving up would make me feel even worse, as if accepting that I'm unlovable.

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[–] diannetea@beehaw.org 17 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What exactly is an "emotional outburst" for you?

There are a lot of things this could mean, ranging from more benign (sobbing) to extreme or scary (throwing things or screaming or worse)

If it's anywhere near the latter then you need to figure out how to manage those symptoms of your mental illness before you're ready for a relationship.

[–] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

An emotional outburst for me is crying hysterically over things that don't matter, sometimes accusing people of doing things without evidence because people have done them to me before, and most commonly, starting arguments in an attempt to prove to myself that somebody must really be as bad as I subconsciously think they are, so I have an excuse to leave and not risk getting hurt again.
I've gotten quite good at recognizing when an emotional outburst is happening so I can warn people I'm gonna be completely irrational for a bit, but most people when presented with "you betrayed me, haven't you?" whether or not they know it's just an outburst I can't control, still get incredibly offended and leave rather than make any attempt to calm my fears.
An example would be the fight that broke up my last relationship. They said something that sounded a little suspicious. I said that, even though I knew it was irrational, I was starting to feel like they'd lied to me about everything they'd said, because I'd been through that before, and asked for reassurance. Instead of reassurance, they became angry at me for accusing them of lying about perfectly normal things. I, in turn, snapped completely, now genuinely accusing them of being a pathological liar because they wouldn't reassure me they weren't.

I can get along fine with the kind of people who can recognize that being irrational means I can't always control myself, and who are willing to just simply reassure me that my fears aren't founded, but if I'm not constantly supported in all the right ways, I will eventually have an outburst like the previously mentioned one, and most people can't handle that.
The outbursts, once again, are something I'm physically incapable of controlling. The only thing I can do is avoid the situation that causes them, usually by communicating what irrational thoughts are on my mind so they can be dispelled before they become a huge issue. I cannot, however, stop myself in the middle of one. And the only way to actually avoid triggering an outburst ever is to become a hermit and refuse to ever interact with another human. The best I can ever hope for us to have people surrounding me who know how to prevent it, and can take it when one day it gets triggered anyway. And like I said, I've got friends who can handle it fine, but zero of them desire any kind of relationship.

[–] averyminya@beehaw.org 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My partner deals with BPD and swears by Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. You mentioned therapy but it's a wide range so I figured the overlaps there would be worth a mention.

Good luck. You are not unlovable, and your problems are not forever. You will grow.

[–] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

All therapy I've received thus far has been simple talk therapy. I was supposed to receive CBT at one point, but the therapist ended up needing to drop me because she didn't have enough training in my combination of issues to properly address the problem. I have an anxiety disorder (what anxiety disorder is currently unknown, but GAD runs in the family.) I have schizoaffective disorder, which is well controlled with meds, but still results in me being more irrational than normal sometimes and more depressed that normal others. I might have PTSD, but that's not diagnosed, just something my psychiatrist has brought up multiple times. The same for BPD, which they have difficulty diagnosing because the symptoms overlap extremely heavily with schizoaffective. On the less severe side, but still effecting how effective therapy is for me, I have autism and ADHD. On top of everything else, I've been known to display symptoms of dissociative identity disorder, but not enough to get diagnosed.
Very few therapists can deal with all of those issues at once, so I've had trouble finding any. I currently don't have one, and am on a waiting list to find a new one, but due to my combination of issues it's taking dramatically longer than usual.

[–] averyminya@beehaw.org 10 points 8 months ago

Yeah this system has been overwhelmed for a while now, in my area there's waiting lists that go for a few years. I can't imagine how dismal it must feel. Unfortunately I can't find a resource at the moment, but in the meantime I would highly suggest a workbook from a CBT program, specifically ones that focus on interpersonal and time management skills. Getting accustomed to it can really help get you further engaged once you are able to get into a program, with the added benefit of making a change and starting early.

My partner used to cry for 16 hours a day, over everything, nothing, all of it. She's in a much different place now, granted nearly a decade later (but also 6 years after all of that too, so it's been a long time now still.) Treatment via medication is an important aspect but that is only as effective as instilling new, healthy habits - and sometimes vice versa where instilling good habits can only help an unmedicated person so much.

Even if the therapeutic side is taking its time it doesn't mean you're out of options, nor are you a lost cause until then! All the best to you!

[–] luciole@beehaw.org 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My significant other for the last decades struggles with various mental disorders. What you describe reminds me of us. She never really managed to get proper therapy so far as well. We've learned some things the hard way, but we're happy and solid now.

For me at least what hit the hardest was not being trusted or being repeatedly accused of betrayal. This stuff seeps into my slightest cracks and blows up my own insecurities about inadequacy. It's a good thing you recognize these episodes. Could you just pull out of the situation when you feel one coming, request alone time? Defuse it, then come back to your loved one. That's what she does. I know to respect the alone time, no matter when it is needed. It's important for your partner to be aware of your struggles, but expecting them to accurately dismiss what you express on account of issues is not sustainable long term in my opinion. It's too hard to apply and too likely to backfire.

You're popular, amazing people have already crossed your path, there's no reason for it not to happen again. So prepare for making the next one the best one.

[–] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 5 points 8 months ago

Separating myself and being alone works to an extent. If I'm not breaking down yet but know I'm starting to get irrational, I find if I don't allow myself to say anything, and simply remove myself from the presence of anybody who could be hurt, I can often abort the episode entirely. However, that doesn't always work. Sometimes it makes it worse and I have to bring myself back to them and straight up ask "hey, this thing you did made me feel like you might be trying to betray me. Why did you actually do that?" Answering that question makes it much easier to dismiss my anxieties.
There's also a strategy I've deployed with my first ex after our breakup, since we're still friends and they have a very similar set of disorders, where we have times we allow each other to have controlled blowups at each other, knowing explicitly that that's what we're doing. It makes it easier not to blow up at other people. The only rule is we never do it at the same time. Being able to shout all kinds of horrible things and have somebody just go "yeah, whatever, I get it. Do your thing." is extremely therapeutic for both of us.
We also, after we're finished blowing up, go over what we said and analyze whether it was rational and how to avoid similar thoughts. Realizing fully why something doesn't make sense makes it easy to dismiss later so we don't fall down the same irrational path the same way later, and have fewer blowups over time. It's a powerful tool to be able to go "I'm feeling X way about Y thing, but I've felt that way before and determined it was irrational, so it can't magically be rational this time."

[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You cant expect someone to want you if you dont want yourself.

You also cant expect someone to be your emotional punching bag, that will always drive people away.

You need to sort out your own issues first.

I see you're on meds and therapy, you need to keep working at it.

Another option is lower your own expectations, you're not perfect so dont chase perfect in someone else. ( probably lead to long term unhappyness though)

[–] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My bar for a relationship right now is literally just that they don't flee when I cry about something stupid, and that they don't yell at me when I tell them they're scaring me and triggering traumatic memories. Both of these things would seem like obvious things almost anybody could provide, but when I'm crying constantly or trauma is getting triggered multiple times a day, even the best people walk out, or snap. Because my emotional outbursts are triggered by constantly feeling like I'm reliving old traumas, even when there's literally no reason to feel that way. 99% of people don't have the emotional fortitude to reassure me every day that no, they didn't suddenly decide today that they secretly want to destroy my life. Presented with fears of betrayal enough times, I've never been in a relationship where they didn't finally snap and become convinced that I thought they were a terrible person. My first ex became convinced that they were a terrible person and that must be why I constantly fear betrayal. Another ex ended up calling me a crazy bitch because they thought there was no way I was constantly having these thoughts and didn't genuinely believe them to be true.
The most recent friend I made is the only one I've found who was able to handle it flawlessly. Most times, she found it really easy to simply reassure me it wasn't true, and if I crossed and boundaries, she'd simply tell me I had so I could step back for a minute and reevaluate myself. She never blew up at me. She never fled because my emotions were getting too intense. And most importantly, she never blamed herself for me having irrational fears about her. That's a rare combination to have all in one person.

[–] rgb3x3@beehaw.org 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That's a rare combination to have all in one person.

It's also way too much to ask of someone. It's not fair of you to expect that someone forgoes their own emotional health to take care of yours. A relationship is a transaction, like it or not. There's push and pull, each person needs to get something positive out of it and if you're spending so much time telling your partner they're a bad person, they're going to leave. Nobody deserves that.

That's not to say you don't deserve love, because you do. But it sounds like there's a lot of work ahead for you to manage your mental health and get to a place where you can trust someone in the way they should be trusted in a loving relationship.

Both of these things would seem like obvious things almost anybody could provide, but when I'm crying constantly or trauma is getting triggered multiple times a day, even the best people walk out, or snap.

This behavior is extremely exhausting for someone to manage. Your partner has their own problems to deal with too. Between work, school, children, planning meals, managing the house, vacations, holidays, healthcare, and many more things, there's so much work to be done in life. You need to be a productive part of the relationship. Share in the burdens of life to help make them easier on someone, as they do for you, instead of being another chore to deal with.

My suggestion is to continue spending a lot of time working on yourself. Learn to trust again, learn to love yourself, understand the needs of others, and understand the part you play in a relationship. Nobody is obligated to love you, but (almost) everyone is deserving of love (I say almost because there are insanely cruel people in this world).

Lastly, ALL OF WHAT I SAID APPLIES TO YOU TOO FROM SOMEONE ELSE. Anything you need from someone is something that someone should be able to provide to you, and vice-versa. Don't expect anything from anyone that you wouldn't do yourself, just as they shouldn't do the same. Find someone who wants to take care of you, the same way that you will take care of them.

[–] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 2 points 8 months ago

I think I've given the misimpression that I immediately jump to blaming my partner for everything and telling them they're a bad person. I used to do that, but not so much anymore. How things typically go nowadays is that I explain that I'm having an irrational thought because of a traumatic memory, and try to guide them through what I need them to do for me to help me feel better. However, the more common response, instead of listening to me about what I need, is for people to tell me that I'm taking the wrong approach and that they have a better solution to alleviating my fears. This inevitably leads to me having an emotional snapping moment where their solution didn't work, my emotions spiraled out of control, and now I think they're evil. This is immediately followed by me breaking down crying, apologizing profusely, and feeling like the whole thing was my fault. What I need people to understand is that I know what works for me and I cannot compromise on that.

I suppose it's actually a little inaccurate to say nobody ever has a better solution, because my most recent ex actually was able to really easily keep me under control, simply by overloading me with being super nice every time I was about to have an outburst to the point where my brain would just short circuit and go "I couldn't possibly have been thinking anything bad about her, right? Because I can't see a single bad thing right now." We still, however, ended up breaking up due to an emotional outburst of mine, but that was a very rare case where everyone who witnessed it or heard the story said it was justified (she was the one who I accused of being a compulsive liar, but she had literally just tried to gaslight me into believing I had never once told her I was uncomfortable with some aggressive types of advances she made on me, even though I said it constantly, all the time, and repeatedly asked her to stop. The only issue was I accused her of lying about a lot more than she actually had lied about.)

Unfortunately, my mental health issues just straight up aren't going to go away. I can't do anything except eliminate the triggers that cause them, and that's what I want people to understand and help me do. I'm not expecting people to sit down and take my emotional blowups. I'm expecting them to work with me to prevent them in the first place. That's what this new friend is so good at. Because she listens to me about what I need, with the sole exception of if it crosses her boundaries, where she informs me so I can work around it and work with her to find a solution that she is capable of doing for me.

And it's not like people gain nothing from me. I'm told I'm exceptionally good at emotional support and giving good advice (which is largely because I have to do these things for myself all the time, and I'm exceptionally more fucked up than the average person I'm supporting.) I'm also the kind of person who doesn't feel the least bit bad if somebody can't be there for me all the time (in fact, I kinda appreciate it because it gives me plenty of chances to learn better control of my emotions without the need of somebody's help.)

But even with all that said, maybe I am still asking too much. Evidently most people still can't handle it, so at this point I probably have to admit it's not a normal thing to expect of somebody, even if to me it feels like the bare minimum.

[–] myfavouritename@beehaw.org 9 points 8 months ago

That sounds incredibly difficult. From some of your other comments, it seems like you're being really transparent with partners about your own challenges. That's impressive.

You are worthy of being loved, regardless of whether or not someone is actually showing you that love. Things can and will change all throughout your life. There's good reason to have hope. Take care.

[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't have any wisdom to share, but good luck on your path friend. 🫂

[–] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 months ago

I appreciate the support. I think I'm just having a bit of a bad few days. Every issue feels 1000x worse than it really is right now, so I suppose the best I can do is get through it until I'm thinking rationally again.

[–] solitaire@infosec.pub 6 points 8 months ago

From the way you've described your mental health problems, I've had similar friends who have found stable, loving relationships. So there's hope, though I know that can be the most infuriating thing to hear.

[–] 520@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago

Have patience. Rome wasn't built in a day, and both overcoming your mental struggles and finding a partner who accepts you and can handle you will take time.

[–] BirdEnjoyer@kbin.social 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You mentioned you're on meds, but how deep does the health rabbit hole go, I wonder? The body is a whole system, after all.
Have ALL your hormone systems been checked, your iron, your inflammation markers, lupus, etc?
Have you ever had a sleep study? (Do you snore?) Do you have migraines or anything like that? Are you perhaps super flexible?

Any of these could be a potential lead to some relief, if you have an additional underlying health issue like sleep apnea, anemia, hypothyroidism, or the likes.

All of these can just fly under the radar for years as just fucking with your head, and most of them can be resolved with pills- supplements, antibiotics, t4, etc.

I personally identify with so many of your fears- I'm personally coming to the realization that I may not be aro ace and I'm in denial, which is scary.

But I've only come so far in part because I feel so much better after getting my thyroid out, getting my thyroid levels right for the first time maybe ever, medicating my sex hormones, and getting my migraines to some relative degree of managed for the first time.

[–] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 months ago

My physical health is constantly monitored because there are some issues there, but nobody can identify the root cause of most of them. I get constant blood tests done to check the levels of things like my electrolytes and stuff (at least I assume that's what they're checking considering they label it as metabolic.) All my levels there are completely normal.

However, I am trans (mtf,) so my estrogen and testosterone levels get tested a lot, and while they've found my testosterone is consistently exactly where it's supposed to be, my estrogen swings extremely wildly far beyond what it's supposed to. I have times where my estrogen is consistently measured as being much higher than it's supposed to regardless of how long after my injection it's measured, and I have times where where my estrogen is practically nonexistent only a few days after doing the injection. The cause is unknown and an effective solution has not been found. It leads, of course, to me being incredibly moody for no reason a lot, on top of my mental health issues. But for some reason people are way more understanding with "sorry I yelled at you, my estrogen was through the floor" than they are "sorry I yelled at you, I have a collection of severe mental illnesses." That's a totally separate vent though about how people are way more understanding about physical health than mental health even though it matters just as much.

There's a slight chance I have sleep apnea, but I've been told it's pretty low. I did do one sleep study and nothing unusual was found. I do, however, suffer from horrific migraines, and have my whole life. I also have bizarre nerve issues in my lower back and legs that only Tylenol relieves. For whatever reason, stronger pain relievers, even opiods, do nothing for it.

As far as thyroid issues, I get checked for that constantly because they run in my family. Also, I do have high inflammation markers for some mysterious reason, but no inflammation has been found anywhere in my body. I also have oddly high white blood cell counts every time it's ever been measured. They were looking for a cause for that at first, but after literally over a decade of zero positive results and more doctor's appointments in a year than there are months, they eventually just had to say maybe it's just like that for no important reason.

So yeah, my physical health is perhaps just as fucked up as my mental health. I'm actually considered legally disabled for that reason.

On a note about the aro ace thing you mentioned, I've actually been through that. It ended up turning out that I only identified as aro ace because my religious upbringing made me terrified of romance and sex. At this point I identify as biromantic and probably demisexual. It was definitely a scary thing at first indeed, but I found myself much happier once I'd finally come to terms with who I really was. Just remember that you don't have to figure yourself out all at once, and you're allowed to get it wrong as well. Nobody knows perfectly who they are, so if you have to change your labels a few more times, or even a lot more times, before you've started to find your footing, just go for it.