93

Even though we had a little bit of warning about federation, I think we're off to a rocky start. Maybe we should have compiled a list of things we think that may make other people very upset. That way they can quickly get to know what we're about and go hide in a social media bubble if it scares them.

I figure I'd start with a good one. America deserved 9/11. I'm burying the lede a bit with that one. I don't think random acts of violence really accomplish much and I don't think randos, albeit imperial core randos, should die. But this wasn't a random act of violence, was it?

There's a little something called Foucault's Boomerang. Basically it's the tools, means, and experiments carried out by imperial countries tend to make their way back home one way or another. Military gear gets tried out on the battlefield then next thing you know cops at home have the same equipment. It also works for cause and effect. America did 9/11 to itself.

After WWII America courted the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, who had some really "interesting" religious ideas at the time, to ensure a source of oil. Oil was very important to American manufacturing and the war effort. Our domestic reserves helped us get through WWII. We needed more. So the US decided to look the other way on Saudi foreign policy while they ensured us first dibs on the oil. The UK also made deals on building their infrastructure and finance needs, to which the US eventually pushed them of the back rooms where such deals were made. But that's another story.

The US also backed anti-Soviet/anti-Communist groups in the Middle-East as they had in other parts of the world. This meant giving aide and weapons and training to those groups. In exchange they would beat up all the communists and pro-soviet people in their country and keep the borders open for US trade.

Not to "yadda yadda yadda" through a lot of interesting history but the US made a lot of enemies and ruined former alliances in these places because we valued the exploitation of their resources more than the actual relationships formed. Once the Soviets were gone, we could just do what we wanted to them and there was nobody left to oppose us.

So our former (and some current) friends stabbed us in the back. The imperialism boomeranged back home and we got a terrorist attack on US soil.

The people who died didn't particularly deserve it but people die when an imperial power does imperialism. That's part of why it's bad. Imperialism will never benefit the common person, it will only hurt us in the end. You best believe all this funding, weapons, and shit going into Ukraine will come back on us too.

What are some other real-ass takes for our visitors who need disillusioning?

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[-] happybirthdaygonzolo@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

I don’t recommend to anyone here to praise violence, not because we disagree with it, but because supporting violence draws bad attention to the site. But yeah, 9/11.

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[-] the_itsb@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

Sex Work is Work

Idk how truly controversial that is anymore though.

I've got hot takes about ageism that upset a lot of my age-peers and people older; I think kids and teens should be empowered and consulted more, and I think we need age maximums for things just as surely as we need age minimums. Sure, not every 95yo is incapable of driving, but also some 13yo kids are and we still don't let them have licenses. Fine, a 25yo shouldn't be President, but also maybe neither should anyone over 65.

[-] SootyChimney@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree it's work, but I also assert that, under Capitalism at least, it's exploitative work that targets and injures the vulnerable and poor even more than the majority of other work. You cannot buy enthusiastic consent.

[-] YuccaMan@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

True, but that's also true of wage labor generally. I support the assertion that sex work is work partly for that reason: it's a good provocation for an argument against labor under capitalism being consensual.

Some of my old coworkers would insist, to my frustration, that me and my fellow grumblers and agitators had nothing to complain about because we could leave at any time. My manager was especially fond of that line. And it's like yeah, but I still need to eat and pay rent. I'm still forced to do something, against my inclination. If you can't choose to do nothing without life altering consequences, then you aren't free. (Edit: I should note that this wouldn't change under socialism, but the differences would include much fairer compensation and actual democratic representation, i.e. you'll actually get something for your work and you'll have a real stake in society) The exchange of money, and the need to earn it, always undermines consent.

Sex work is merely a more highly visible form of this kind of coercion, and I liked to use it as an example when explaining the above points to any of my coworkers who cared to listen. Being that we were warehouse workers, many of whom sustained minor injuries and risked major ones on a daily basis (and one of whom totally fucked up his back for life and was forced to quit), it was an easy point to make. We were selling our bodies as well. The difference, of course, is that our line of work is looked at as legitimate, whereas sex work often is not. Well clearly that's wrong. As I've just outlined, there's little difference between it and other forms of labor under capitalism. The view of sex work as illegitimate or less respectable or whatever is undoubtedly rooted in misogyny and patriarchy, but that'd be a whole post unto itself.

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[-] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago

Sex work stuff is controversial among communists because Marxist-Leninists have historically been for the abolition of the sex trade. That's all I have to say though cause I don't want an argument over this again. lukashenko-tired

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[-] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago

i don't have any Real Ass Takes to add bc a lot of good stuff has already been covered, but i just wanted to say i think this is a super valuable topic, not just for educating lemmy libs but for reference in general. im gonna use this to convince libs IRL that my insane-sounding opinions are actually decidedly sane

Death to America

[-] Finger@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

no more half measures walter

[-] Zuzak@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's way too many words.

9/11 was used as a justification for wars that killed hundreds of thousands of people. We've had days where more people were dying every day from covid than from 9/11. The US armed and supported Al Qaida, Rambo II said "This film is dedicated to the brave mujaheddin of Afghanistan."

We, like a lot of people, got sick and tired of it being blown out of proportion so we joke about it.

Like how did you stretch it out that far, adding that much text just makes it weird.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

Rambo II said "This film is dedicated to the brave mujaheddin of Afghanistan."

Uhhhh ackshually miss that was Rambo III

🤓

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[-] pooh@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

America did 9/11 to itself.

thinking-about-it

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this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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