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Bitten Jonsson talks about her journey on the carnivore diet.

generated summary

From Atkins to stricter low-carb

  • Atkins was initially dismissed, but in 2005 Dr. Dahlqvist's account of improved satiety and weight on low-carb arrived during repeated relapses and cravings on a low-fat plan with fruit, bread, and other carbohydrates.
  • Low-carb initially produced fewer cravings and relapses, but whipped cream, berries, nuts, and cheese could still be overeaten; nuts could not be limited to a few, and after a couple of years the low-carb/high-fat plan still was not working for everyone involved.
  • Balancing blood sugar could not cure sugar addiction because addiction is a chronic illness, and lessons from alcohol-and-drug recovery were applied to sugar and food problems.
  • Calling the problem "food addiction" made no sense if any food could become dangerous, so the food plan moved toward natural food, removed whipped cream, nuts, and most cheese, and recovery improved when triggering foods were removed.
  • "Food noise" is stealth propaganda that minimizes what is really craving; craving is the relevant term, and craving can kill.
  • In 1998 a dietitian supplied a paper called "From Seed to Oil" warning about canola, nut, and seed oils; nuts were later connected with omega-6, the omega-3/omega-6 relationship became important, and nuts were removed from the food plan.

Sugar and carb addiction

  • This is sugar-and-carb addiction, not food addiction; flour belongs in the problem too, and Dr. David Unwin's phrase "flour is sugar molecules holding hands" is a simple explanation of why.
  • While the diet was still ketogenic before carnivore, a boat lecture to Finland had a vegan buffet and kitchen staff had to be asked for fish or eggs; this reflected the strong plant-based push being encountered.
  • More than 6,500 clients have probably been seen, and Sugar Bomb in Your Brain contains about 17 cases telling the hell they went through, what happened, and how they feel today. [1]
  • People are held captive by forces such as an overactive reward system and survival brain, an overactive pancreas, and a broken microbiome; changing food is the starting point, but food is only about 10% of the whole recovery protocol and the larger lifestyle has to change too.
  • Sugar addiction can progress through repeated dieting and restriction into anorexia; a couple of clients died when that pattern could not be broken.
  • Restriction can progress into bingeing, vomiting, fasting, compulsive exercise, and later volume eating, where people may overeat almost anything.
  • In that late stage, meat, butter, and salt are not the addictive agents; the survival system is so disrupted that oxytocin, insulin, GLP-1, and the wider system are damaged, leaving the survival brain screaming to eat.

Loss of control, energy, and the move to carnivore

  • Addiction is loss of control: hyperinsulinemia, brain insulin resistance with "foggy brain," Candida overgrowth, and the locked-on reward and survival systems can leave a person unable to connect the dots or control the target behavior.
  • Addiction is the driver and many diagnoses are consequences; when medicine does not screen for the addiction, the "one ill, one pill" approach can keep adding diagnoses and medications without stopping the driver.
  • Early in recovery, feelings are not the guide because they are false negative feelings produced by the illness; energy is what matters, and restoring mitochondrial energy is necessary before people can work on sleep, relationships, and the rest of recovery.
  • The progression moved from low-carb to strict low-carb and then keto as cravings fell and satiety improved; carnivore came later in that process.
  • A woman with years of severe IBS had symptoms gone after three days of carnivore, and that was the point where carnivore clicked; antinutrients and oxalates then joined existing concerns about gluten and grains.
  • The transition from the old food plan through low-carb, stricter low-carb, keto, and carnivore was a process, just as recovery is a process and not an event.
  • Eating this way makes the brain calmer and gives energy and satiety, so cravings are gone, although chocolate can still wake up the "red dog"; breathing, nature, social contact, a dog, and a daily commitment to the food plan are also used.
  • Sugar and carbohydrates make the strongest addiction-memory or euphoric-recall imprint, especially with early childhood exposure, and are a gateway drug that raises tolerance and later drives drug-seeking through the reward system.
  • Healing the brain takes months, and rebuilding neural connections requires changed behavior; reading, talking, and thinking alone do not rewire addiction.

Staying stopped, biochemical denial, and shame

  • Sugar addiction is harder to stay stopped from than alcohol because food is more complex, sugar and carbohydrates are constantly available in society, and family, professionals, and other people can pressure someone back toward foods on which they had felt better abstaining.
  • SUGAR® is a diagnostic tool developed from addiction diagnostic criteria; by the time people seek help, the results often put them in the third severe stage, with the first symptoms sometimes going back to age three, four, or five. [2]
  • Staying stopped requires regular contact with recovery peers because the illness can quickly create doubt and lure someone back; one student called addiction a "shapeshifting beast" because its forms and expressions change.
  • Biochemical denial comes from faulty wiring that stops people connecting the consequences to the addiction; hiding, lying, sneaking, shame, and social stigma then reinforce the problem.
  • The prefrontal cortex develops to about age 25 or perhaps later; it is her own hypothesis that children having so much sugar may make it develop more slowly.
  • Poor EPA/DHA intake, excess carbohydrates, insulin resistance, and malnutrition are also connected with impaired brain development, while psychoactive substances can affect different people differently depending on neurotransmitter dominance and nutritional status.
  • Moderation does not work for a sugar-and-carb addict; controlled eating can occur around other people, followed by going to a store or private stash and eating everything in sight for hours.

Biochemical repair and abstinence

  • The biochemical-repair sequence is food, breathing, sleep, physical activity, and then supplements; addicts overbreathe and overdo things, crash their energy, and need to relearn nose breathing and stabilize their energy.
  • The Relaxator is the main breathing tool used, sleep comes next, and physical activity starts at whatever level the person can tolerate, even if that means putting on shoes, stepping outside, and coming straight back in.
  • Correct breathing is also a relaxation tool; breathing removes most metabolic waste, and when carbon dioxide gets too low the body cannot take up oxygen properly, energy falls, and sugar craving rises.
  • Fish oil, magnesium, electrolytes, and sometimes GABA can help when needed, but supplements are crutches, not a cure or fix.
  • It takes at least about three months to start getting some energy back and can take years depending on how damaged someone is, so craving management and relapse prevention start on day one.
  • Daily support from like-minded people is crucial because society can quickly turn abstinence into "one piece of potato"; one bite is too much and a thousand is never enough.
  • Sugar and carbohydrates are psychoactive substances, and recovery requires 100% abstinence; powerlessness is about the drug's effect on the reward and survival systems, not about being a powerless human being.
  • Recovery is managed one day at a time with a morning commitment and practical problem-solving; groups are powerful because people can learn how others have already handled the same high-risk situations.

Immediate recovery tools and changing behavior

  • For someone in strong craving, the first step is meat, butter, and salt at the next meal and again at the meal after that, along with the breathing technique, water between meals, optional ghee, butter, or coconut fat, plain salt or unsweetened electrolytes, and contact with people in recovery.
  • Plan only tomorrow: decide whether to eat breakfast, what to eat, whether the food environment needs changing, what food to bring to work, when to walk, and who to call; ask family for help without demanding that they change their own food.
  • Keep it simple and use HALT: do not become too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired; stick with people who are succeeding in recovery, and do not turn recipes, cookbooks, or food searching into another obsession.
  • As energy returns, go into action even when early thoughts and feelings are unreliable; taking a walk and making small changes such as sitting in another chair, brushing with the other hand, or walking backward through a doorway are ways changed behavior helps the brain build new paths.
  • A French study involved people with depression who could feel better with antidepressants, while putting a pen in the mouth to simulate smiling could also "fool" the brain; this serves as an example of changing the body to influence the brain.
  • The assessment curve can show years of repeated diets, weight loss and regain, and even gastric bypass or sleeve surgery; repeated efforts are evidence of resilience and persistence with the wrong toolbox, and recovery means using those strengths with a new toolbox and peer support.

References

  1. [13:11] SUGAR BOMB IN YOUR BRAIN: Healing From Sugar Addiction — https://www.xlibris.com/en-GB/bookstore/bookdetails/849071-sugar-bomb-in-your-brain
  2. [31:32] SUGAR® (Sugar Use General Assessment Recording) — https://www.bittensaddiction.com/professional-training/sugar/

top 18 comments
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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This talk was very moving to me. It speaks to the addiction I see in myself.

09:57 — “Flour is sugar molecules holding hands.”

9:31 — “Actually, it’s easy to help a client, but it’s hard to fight society.”

50:03 — “One bite is too much and thousand is never enough.”

30:30 — “You have a whole society confusing you all the time, having so many opinions but no insights.”

Being a alcoholic and trying to learn now to "moderate" alcohol would be insane, why do we try to do it with sugar?

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

You can’t completely quit sugar due to the “sugar molecules holding hands” thing, unless you go to a keto diet.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

exactly; sugar addicts need to go zero carb to recover.

Just like alcoholics need to totally give up alcohol to recover.

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don’t think zero carbs is really feasible, but keto levels of under 30, sure.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Fair enough - whatever works for you! just know its a option

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sort of irrelevant, but it's not really an option for me because I have type 1 diabetes.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Type 1 diabetics have done zero carb, they said they liked it because they didn't need as much insulin. Obviously you wouldn't go strict lion diet as you need to be able to manage a hypo

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I eat fairly low carb, but not keto. From what I understand, it can make things somewhat more complex for people who experience hypoglycemia, and can present a risk of euglycemic ketoacidosis.

[–] xep@discuss.online 2 points 1 week ago

You might be interested in the work of Dr. Andrew Koutnik! He is a Type 1 Diabetes researcher who is himself type 1 diabetic. Here's a lecture from Dr Koutnik on the topic.

Dr. Dave Unwin is another doctor who's also a patient, although I believe he is type 2 diabetic. He has a website: https://phcuk.org/ And he also speaks about diabetes, here: https://discuss.online/post/43443531

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Actually the opposite, please read Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. He was a T1D who pioneered the use of CGMs and diabetes. His philosophy is small inputs lead to small errors - eat very low carb, and you don't have large excursions, the lower your insulin the healthier and longer you live. He recently passed away at age of 90, not bad for a lifelong T1D.

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I eat very low carb, but that is different than crossing the threshold to where your body changes from using carbs to fat and dietary keto.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 week ago

Yes, that is actually the point. Dr. Bernstein is worth reading

[–] spring_cedar_dust@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You need about 100g of carbs every day for you brain to run?

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago

The amounts I’ve seen for keto are under 30, and that can be fine for most people since your metabolism changes to use fat instead.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 week ago

commonly cited myth. Yes, the brain can use glucose, but in fat adapted individuals the vast majority of the energy will come from fat. You will also notice FAT is how humans store energy, so it makes sense the body/brain can run on fat. Babies are fat burners from the moment they are born.

Any glucose demands your body has can be meet by the body itself without eating any sugar. The liver can produce small volume of glucose to feed red blood cells, and replenish muscle glycogen.

For more reading on this topic, I recommend this excellent paper: https://discuss.online/post/38213064

[–] xep@discuss.online 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Your body makes all it needs in a process called gluconeogenesis. I've not had any carbs at all except the little found in meat for more than a year.

[–] xep@discuss.online 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Welcome to the zero carb community :)

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago

Oh, that makes sense. Ha