this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2026
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‘A poisoned chalice’: will Doctor Who survive Russell T Davies’s exit? (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 4 weeks ago by ValueSubtracted@startrek.website to c/doctorwho@startrek.website
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[–] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (3 children)

Hot take but I think Davies Killed Who in his first run and the show's been spinning out since then.

The show became too focused on Tennant, who became too powerful & since then it's been tough to fix the scaling problems that left behind (if he can threaten anyone into backing down how do you write a good badie?), I also think Davies tendency to run back to Tennant every chance he gets is pretty annoying.

That's not say it hasn't been a great show since then, it's just very difficult to maintain tension when you have elevated the main character(s) to literal gods, see also Stargate.

I mean I love the show and thought Gatwa & Whittaker were good doctors (except for the whole Flux thing), but each new doctor is either disliked for not being Tennant or for being too "woke".

[–] StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Gatwa was great. I compare him mostly to the 9th Doctor in the spectrum of regens. I agree, though, the stakes and the production have gotten a bit too... much. The spectacle of some of these seasons and episodes has become overly complicated and flashy, but they feel like they're missing something that I can't quite put into words.

Some of that I place on myself. I'm older now, more experienced. I can't expect Doctor Who to hit the same way it did when I watched The Doctor's Daughter for the first time at 13. It feels... like it's pandering half the time, and that's disappointing because the Gatwa stuff has the beginnings of some good, classic Who, but it always seems to shy away from it somehow and go in a different direction.

I think the show needs two things.

1: It needs to get away from Disney because Disney always sands off the nuance of an IP to make it fit better in its wheelhouse.

2:It needs to make a left turn. Have the Doctor lose the TARDIS for a few seasons. Put them on a generational ship or strand them on a planet like Earth again.

Personally, I'd like to see them break with linear storytelling and do a few seasons with the Fugitive Doctor. If they can find a way to do that without constantly reminding me that she's the "Timeless Child," I would be so down to watch it. Take it back to fundamentals: the Doctor, on the run, doing good. The end of a season isn't a reality-shattering event; it's getting arrested.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I can't get behind the "killed Who" sentiment, given the massive popularity that started with his first run, but he certainly has...certain tendencies that I'm not a big fan of, especially when it comes to finales.

[–] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

"killed Who" is my hot take phrasing, but I guess I want I meant is more that the decision made locked the show into decline because he couldn't come back from decisions that at the time I liked, but in retrospect made it hard for the show to evolve.

I don't think Who is dead, I hope it can keep going (ideally on a smaller budget) indefinitely, I just think in retrospect what to many fans was peak Who, actually set up it's decline.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, I could probably go on for hours with my various, sometimes contradictory, thoughts about the state of affairs.

And hell, I probably will at some point, because what else are we going to do around here for the foreseeable future?

For now, I'll just say that for better or worse, I think RTD picked up where he left off with this era, and made pretty much the same show he did back in '05.

But the '05 audience has changed since then, and this era didn't seem to attract a new generation of fans (at least, not in sufficient numbers).

[–] StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago

Hello again, I wanted to add to my thoughts.

I was thinking about the show so far, and I would put the current situation at Chibnall's feet, not Davies'. Davies ramped up the stakes, sure, but all of Moffat's run was basically just releasing all of that lingering Davies-era pressure and resetting Doctor Who back to baseline. When he left, the Time Lords were back, the Doctor was mostly healed emotionally, and the Doctor's closing words were about being kind, not vengeful. Yes, we still had some big events, but each one was more contained in its own way.

I would say that Moffat worked hard to close the chapter on the Davies-era changes and bring storylines down to more reasonable levels. Then Chibnall showed up and ramped them back up.

I mean, it was his right to do so, but while Moffat tried to put the "toys back in the box," so to speak, Chibnall basically glued the bricks together in a way he liked, and now we're all living with those changes. I'm sure it will be fine. The IP just needs a rest or that left turn I mentioned earlier.

[–] StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago

True, it's hard to justify making a show evolve when its current form is arguably the most popular it's ever been (in the Davies years). I actually preferred Moffat's run. I think the Ponds were great companions, and while it does go off the wall at points, it puts a lampshade on it by having characters go out of their way to tell the Doctor that he's changed and it's a problem. Unfortunately, the show didn't really course-correct after that arc.

I would say Tennant is my Doctor, but that's because he was my first Doctor. Smith's storylines, in general, are more engaging and better paced without the angst.

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I kind of agree with this. Davies pushed interest rates to zero which generated a major short term boom but robbed the future of it's staying power.

I might be one of the only people who liked the Flux arc (or at least didn't dislike it) but that's largely due to Whittaker's charisma.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"Flux" was better than it had any right to be under Covid filming restrictions. And they did some bold swings, and crammed them into a condensed season, which is gutsy in any normal context.

I wish they'd connected the dots a little better, particularly in the finale, but it's as bonkers as "Trial of a Time Lord" which I also have a soft spot for.

[–] cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

the only bad thing about flux is that thasmin should have been canon as a result of it.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 1 points 3 weeks ago

That's more generous than I'm willing to be towards "Flux" 🙂

At least Thasmin (in some form) was spelled large in the specials and "Power of the Doctor"... but it was a bit late in the day.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 5 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

There are two important points in this article, which I feel often get overlooked in the rush of fan theorising and hot takes:

Gatwa’s run as the Time Lord, though, has seen viewing figures dip to the lowest in the show’s history – although the current streaming landscape makes it difficult to make like-for-like comparisons with previous eras. The highest figures ever obtained by Doctor Who, after all, were in the 1970s, when there were only three channels in the UK and when ITV was on strike.

and

Part of the problem remains that the BBC is unclear as to what it wants the show to be. It is a valuable franchise and a British cultural touchstone, but it lacks the global reach of Star Wars or Marvel, despite having to compete against them for attention. At the same time, the BBC still thinks it can use it on Saturday linear TV to unite a family audience that probably no longer exists. Putting the show out to tender suggests they are looking for somebody else to square those circles.

From an armchair analyst's point of view, you just can't make 1:1 comparisons between traditional, "appointment TV" broadcast viewing stats and on-demand, "long tail" streaming audiences. They're not even apples and oranges.

But of course, that's what doomers tend to pull out of their bag: "Look how poorly new episodes have done on date of broadcast in 2026, compared to that time there literally was nothing else on, and you didn't know when you could watch it again". Fortunately, you can just tune out those people.

It's more worrying that the BBC still, 20+ years into the streaming era, don't seem to have understood that "linear TV", as well as the ritual of communal watching, are pretty much in the past. And they appear to decide the future of shows like Doctor Who on that outdated basis.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yup. The tv landscape has changed in ways that no one can really understand.

I say it a lot, but from my perspective, RTD came back and made pretty much the same show he did the first time around, and got a vastly different outcome.

It’s more worrying that the BBC still, 20+ years into the streaming era, don’t seem to have understood that “linear TV”, as well as the ritual of communal watching, are pretty much in the past.

I wonder how much of that is wishful thinking on their part, and how much of it is structural, leaving them no choice. Any time I see a story about the state of the Beeb, it sounds pretty dire.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

And even more, the TV landscape is still changing. Streaming is not a Klondike for companies or viewers anymore. I have no idea what's going to materialise further down the road, but the stage is definitely being set for a change. That's why it's so bad for BBC shows like Who that the broadcaster is stuck in a '90s understanding of viewerships.

As for RTD... I'm sure he was hired to work the same magic as he did in 2005, and I think he tried. But he's twenty years older now, and at a completely different place in his life and career. It was almost inevitable that this return would have a "How are you doing, fellow kids" feeling both on screen and in his press/social updates. And AFAICT his understanding of modern viewing habits is as poor as the BBC leadership's.

I would have much preferred if he'd stuck to the 60th anniversary specials and then taken a step back to coach his replacement from an executive or advisory position. But that's just wistful thinking, and rear view mirror rationalisation.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

And AFAICT his understanding of modern viewing habits is as poor as the BBC leadership’s.

Honestly, I don't think he cares much. And to the extent that he does care, I think it's pretty solidly on the side of "Doctor Who is for kids," and so he's unafraid to get very silly with it.

I would have much preferred if he’d stuck to the 60th anniversary specials and then taken a step back to coach his replacement from an executive or advisory position.

Yeah...I had extremely mixed feelings about him coming back, and the outcome was really worse than I imagined. But he still managed to produce a few top-tier episodes in all that mess.

Onward and upward. I hope.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 2 points 3 weeks ago

Onward and upward. I hope.

Yep. The show is a bloody mess right now, but my hope is somebody will turn out a fresh take within the next couple of years. There has to be somebody who can build from here and focus on making fun/scary/weird time travel stories without being bogged down by the history of it all.

[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's more worrying that the BBC still, 20+ years into the streaming era, don't seem to have understood that "linear TV", as well as the ritual of communal watching, are pretty much in the past.

They possibly understand the landscape better than you think. BBC Three, Auntie’s channel targeted at 16-34s, closed its linear channel in 2016 as conventional wisdom was that youth audiences were shifting online-only. BBC Three became an exclusive commissioning strand on iPlayer.

Viewership however plummeted, and showcase linear broadcasts appeared late-night on BBC One from 2019, which increased viewership. In 2022 BBC Three returned as a linear channel.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Very interesting, and I'm happy to be corrected. I'm wondering what other factors there could be to that segment opting out of an iPlayer offering?

[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Why vinyl? Part of it is technological contrarianism, part of it is the convenience of sticking a channel on and not having to decide what to watch.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 1 points 3 weeks ago

Fair. I can definitely sympathise with the vinyl comparison.

[–] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Great points.

My family watches as a group all the time, and Doctor Who features prominently.

But my DVD purchases probably aren't being accounted for in their stats.

Also, Disney almost certainly lied to the BBC about streaming popularity, to save on license fees or something.

[–] SiliconAvatar@startrek.website 2 points 3 weeks ago

Well, if you're buying your DVDs new, the BBC home media branch surely appreciate your patronage. Part of that money will probably find its way back to the broadcasting and production companies?

But of course, DVDs don't count toward those vaunted viewer ratings, and that's another thing that skews those numbers.

[–] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I think it'll be fine with a bit of a rest and a mild reboot. That's one of the strengths of the show, the cast and crew always changes eventually and it goes on.

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I agree. Have a nap, take a shower, start fresh when you're ready. I am also not the biggest RTD fan so I'm personally ok with moving on from him.

[–] cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

doctor who won't survive bbc's institutional transphobia nevermind russell t davies exit

[–] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I've watched Doctor Who in the wee hours of Sunday night on broadcast TV, on rented VHS tapes, animated on the BBC iPlayer, purchased as mp3s from Big Finish Audio, purchased from random providers in the early days of digital media, streamed through complicated VPNs from BBC iPlayer, and purchased or borrowed from the library on DVD.

But Disney's shit-tier steaming (and streaming, sometimes) app for Android is what managed to kill my Doctor Who fandom.

I'll catch up using my DVD player - which still works reliably - whenever I happen to catch a sale on the latest seasons at a used book store.

Long live Doctor Who.

And may Disney Plus rot in infamy.