this post was submitted on 31 May 2026
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Myth - eating meat is for pleasure (hackertalks.com)
submitted 3 days ago by jet@hackertalks.com to c/carnivore@discuss.online
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"People only eat meat for pleasure" - we have all seen some version of this chestnut thrown about in conversations

The people who make this type of assumption about other peoples mental state and emotions are really telling on themselves.

Carnivores (zero-carb) don't get hedonistic pleasure from eating meat. In fact, like people doing a ketogenic diet, the food noise goes away. This is very important so I need to repeat it: THE FOOD NOISE GOES AWAY. If you don't know what this means - it's probably because you haven't yet experienced the absolute calm that comes from deep ketosis. Almost everyone stumbles through their day thinking about food, what to eat next, what they want, what they could have, etc... All of this goes away. All of it.

Carnivores do get hungry, but its not a voracious beast that blisses out on each bite like a cat discovering catnip, and the only way to stop is to fight your latent hedonism.

The "meat for pleasure" rhetorical device is making it some moral issue, but it reflects on the speaker's personal cravings... since they are missing essential nutrients (I assume) they can only think of meat in terms of pleasurable

It's applying the carb addicted mindset of hedonistic pleasure with every meal. Oh one more cookie, two more, well just this box. That is the pleasure cycle. I can see someone who has only lived in this cycle projecting it onto zero carb carnivore, but it's not accurate at all.

When I'm clean carnivore I've never looked at meat and thought - ohh yeah this is going to be pleasurable... I'm just hungry and I know this food will solve the hunger, and it will taste good. No lust, no cravings, no "pleasure", and I can skip the meal no problems as well. It's like living on the furthest edge of "I could eat". And when you get full, that's it, very satisfied, you don't want anymore. No "i'm being bad, just another steak".

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[–] silly_goose@lemmy.today 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But isn't this only your experience with meat?

Many do crave some chicken wings, steak etc. They really enjoy it just like people do with a jar of cookies or ice cream.

Maybe because you eat meat everyday your brain is used to it and doesn't feel it's special. But to someone who has meat once a week or a month it feels like a hedonistic jackpot.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Many do crave some chicken wings, steak etc. They really enjoy it just like people do with a jar of cookies or ice cream

This doesn't match any of my personal experiences

Maybe because you eat meat everyday your brain is used to it and doesn't feel it's special. But to someone who has meat once a week or a month it feels like a hedonistic jackpot.

Probably some truth to that, hunger is the best flavor. If someone is missing basic essential nutrition filling it is rewarded.

While we are talking, what's your deal? You barely downvote but you have spent 55% of your lifetime downvotes downvoting me when I talk about keto. Lots of people don't like keto, fair enough, but why are you coming here?

[–] silly_goose@lemmy.today 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

You barely downvote but you have spent 55% of your lifetime downvotes downvoting me when I talk about keto.

I'm sorry. I did downvote some of your comments subconsciously. I was a keto hater like you deduced but over the last few days I am trying to discover the truth and be as open minded as possible.

Edit: After searching my account briefly, I recalled that I did upvote some of your comments / posts too. I don't know the percentage but I guess it's an interesting insight into my mind 😅

[–] xep@discuss.online 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I was highly skeptical also. My friends can attest to this, since I informed all of them that I was going to do a self experiment and that they should tell me immediately if I looked unwell in any way when I started zero carb.

Turned out ok! I can recommend asking friends about how healthy you look, it's a decent sanity check.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 2 days ago

No worries! I'm always happy to have a discussion, just the pattern was a little unusual :)

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

From wiktionary:

pleasure (countable and uncountable, plural pleasures)

  1. (uncountable) A state of being pleased or contented; gratification.

Kinda sounds like literally exactly what you described in that last paragraph, no?

Nobody thinks that people eat meat because it's like candy to them. That's not what people mean when they say you only eat meat for pleasure. You would be just fine without it, statistically you would be healthier without it, and you choose to eat it anyway because the alternative would be displeasurable to you.

You can just say that you value your own comfort over the lives of animals. There's literally no argument against you saying that you're okay with killing animals if it makes you feel better. What am I supposed to say, "you're a bad person?" The right response to that is "who gives a shit what you think?"

When you try and define your way into a defensible position, it just makes you look weaselly. Like you don't really believe what you're saying and you're desperately trying to convince yourself that you're right. Because you sure as shit aren't going to convince the kind of person who says "people only eat meat for pleasure."

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

If we use your rational we then saying "people drink water for pleasure" is also valid... Why stop there "people breath for pleasure"... I know I'm content when I can breath ..

This entire community is about the health benefits of meat, and you would not just be fine without it.

I value my health over the lives of animals. But so does every eating human. All food represents the death of plants and animals (yes even plants). It's a biocycle.

I am not being a weasel, I'm explaining the state of ketosis and the food noise goes away. As much as I drink water for pleasure, being content I won't die, that's the same feeling I have for meat.

"Eating meat for pleasure" - is a disingenuous rhetorical tool and I'm attempting to share why it's particularly ironic for a diet that has no cravings or hedonistic pleasure responses

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I mean it's a bit different in the fact that I literally die if I don't breathe air or drink water. You wouldn't literally die if you didn't eat meat

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You wouldn’t literally die if you didn’t eat meat

https://doi.org/10.1186/1475-2891-5-1

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

The fifth child born to a married couple was breast-fed until 2 1/2 months. Subsequently, the parents fed the baby an exclusively raw foods diet prepared in a blender at home.

No shit the kid died. Same thing would happen if they fed them a diet comprising entirely of blended up animal bones. A vegetarian diet can be healthy at all stages of life, as long as you aren't homicidally stupid about it.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

A vegan diet can be healthy at all stages of life

This position is in effect until December 31, 2019.

Guess what the new position statement doesn't say?

Anyway, meat isn't for pleasure, thats what we should focus on. Yes, you can be healthy on many eating patterns, but regardless of any of that - it doesn't make eating meat a "for pleasure" activity.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It doesn't say that vegetarian diets aren't suitable for infants, it just focuses specifically on adults.

If only there were so incredibly many more resources I could link to.

Oh well, c'est la vis.

So we've established that eating meat is something you do because you want to, not because you have to. If only there was another way to put that...

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It doesn’t say that vegetarian diets aren’t suitable for infants, it just focuses specifically on adults.

What it doesn't say is "A vegan diet can be healthy at all stages of life" Which is what you are trying to say.

meat isn’t for pleasure, thats what we should focus on. Yes, you can be healthy on many eating patterns, but regardless of any of that - it doesn’t make eating meat a “for pleasure” activity.

Regardless, EAT IN ANYWAY THAT YOU LIKE - it doesn't bother me. This post is about meat not being a hedonistic pleasure.

[–] xep@discuss.online 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Same thing would happen if they fed them a diet comprising entirely of blended up animal bones

You misrepresent our positions, which I find distressing. Parents concerned about metabolic health would not feed their child blended up animal bones.

You can just say that you value your own comfort over the lives of animals.

This is also a misrepresentation. What we value over the lives of animals is our health. I'm more than happy to also say that I also value the health of other people and not just myself over the lives of animals.

Comfort isn't the primary concern, although poor health is also at the same time uncomfortable. When you use the word "comfort" instead of "health", you imply that we are not willing to give up enjoyment or put up with discomfort. That is an uncharitable view of people on zero carb.

As others have mentioned we've arrived on this diet after trying everything else. I was personally plant-based for half a decade. Hopefully this helps you with understanding our position as a vegan.

[–] silly_goose@lemmy.today 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

we've arrived on this diet after trying everything else. I was personally plant-based for half a decade

If you don't mind sharing, what health issues did you face on an omnivore and a plant based diet?

[–] xep@discuss.online 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I had fatty liver, which my doctor discovered during a regular checkup. I've always been pretty diligent about staying in good health, adhering strictly to all conventional wisdom, so as you might imagine it came as a bit of a shock. At this point I'd been plant based for about 5 years and ran / swam on alternating days, every day.

That was the only formal diagnosis but looking back I had every symptom of metabolic syndrome: a large waist, high triglyceride level, low HDL, hypertension, and high fasting blood glucose. I didn't know it then but I was pre-diabetic. My doctor told me I needed lifestyle changes but I was already following all his advice, and didn't drink nor smoke. He was stumped.

I started reading about fatty liver and found a video about sugar, by Dr Robert Lustig. That's what got me started. I cut out refined carbs and started reading about metabolic health as much as I could. I still do. I wore a continuous glucose monitor and found that my resting blood glucose was in the pre-diabetic range. Carbohydrates would spike it above 210 mg/dl.

I continued reading and incorporating what I learned into how I ate, very slowly and carefully, and landed on zero carb after another 4 years. The improvements have been nothing short of remarkable, every marker of prediabetes is gone, and my weight is normal.

I have a really nice physique now so all that running and swimming must've helped.

[–] silly_goose@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's a great journey thanks for sharing.

Plant based is so broad that even a diet of fried food, coke, and donuts would fall under it. I'm shocked that your doctor didn't ask you to cut refined carbs.

I have a really nice physique now so all that running and swimming must've helped.

🥳

[–] xep@discuss.online 3 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

He did. All conventional wisdom, so no sugary food was the first thing. What he didn't mention and what really had an effect was when I stopped eating rice, bread, pasta, potatoes, and fruits at every meal.

That's all thanks to the CGM.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 2 days ago

If you want to see a bunch of personal testimonials check out:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzcoPGdDRiPiWZYV4_EkzPQ

And

https://whycarnivore.com/

Many of the people had already tried plant based before going to the more extreme zero carb

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You misrepresent our positions, which I find distressing. Parents concerned about metabolic health would not feed their child blended up animal bones.

No fuckin shit. What I described was technically a carnivore diet in the same way that the diet Jet referenced was technically vegan. It's almost like I was intentionally pointing out the fact that this outlier doesn't represent the diet as a whole.

[–] xep@discuss.online 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Blending up animal bones isn't technically a carnivore diet. I'm afraid you once again misunderstand what this approach to nutrition is about.

The proper diet for human nutrition consists of a sufficient amount of protein (2g/kg of lean body mass) and then eating fat to satiety. Animal bones do contain some protein but not in sufficiently bio-available amounts, so it would surely cause a deficiency. The marrow is a good source of fat and nutrition, so I can recommend eating that, but it's critical that we eat a sufficient amount of protein from meat.

All nutrition should be minimally processed and maximally bioavailable, which is why animal-sources are ideal.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

you would be just fine without [meat]

You don't understand the audience here, people come to this diet because of health issues on other diets. I personally tried every named diet I could find except 'the drinking man's diet' and none helped until this one

As a bonus it also got me to a healthy weight

You can just say that you value your own comfort over the lives of animals.

That's a very weak argument. No diet is innocent. A recent study found the vegan diet killed more mammals per meal than carnivore, and that didn't count the habitat loss to wheat production

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Right, because raising a cow for food directly causes one death for like 500,000 Calories, whereas raising plants for food incidentally causes some non-zero number of small mammal deaths for the same amount of food.

Say, who's eating most of the crops we grow in the US? Do they go straight to humans, or is there an unnecessary and inefficient intermediary step? Could we perhaps reduce the amount of crops grown (thereby reducing incidental deaths due to harvesting) by skipping that unnecessary intermediary step?

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Cows eat grass there are 3x as many grasslands in the us as there is cropland, you can't use the grassland to grow crops it's not fungible.

Everyone here will agree the agricultural system needs improvement, sustainable regenerative practices without external inputs. We need to improve soil health, it's a critical resource. However... Ruminants are a necessary part of a sustainable biocycle.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Did I ask how much of our natural landscape we've razed to make room for grazing cattle, or did I ask who eats the majority of the crops we grow and harvest?

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 2 days ago

Neither of those are inline with the discussion of meat isn't for pleasure, its moving the goal posts to deaths for food, which then had the goalposts moved again to land needed for food, and I'm responding to all of that by saying there is land that cannot be used for crops but can be used for raising ruminants.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Consider a Mc Donalds Big Mac Meal - Delicious! I could eat 5, until I'm stuffed beyond reason and I'm rolling out of the restaurant... But that isn't because of the meat, the beef in a Big Mac Meal is barely 15% of the energy... the 85% carbs - fries, sauces, spices, drinks, buns - every thing that comes from plants - is what makes that addictive.

Next time you are at a BBQ place - order the BBQ dry/no sauce. Eat a bit of it. Now add your normal sauces... Big difference - right? The one with the sugar sauce is irritable, gotta take another bite... even if your stuffed.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I recall when there was so much hedonistic pleasure in eating a potato - complex rules to cook it just right. So much of it was planning and imagining

And that can't compare to modern engineered hyper palatable stuff for moreishness and food noise

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 2 days ago

You are reminding me of cruise ships, where you eat, drink, eat, drink, repeat... and what do people talk about while their drinking? The food! They have the best baked potatoes on C deck with sour cream and chives... it's to die for!

So much of it was planning and imagining

Seriously... eating one meal a day, that takes a few minutes to cook. Before I'd eat out because I was lazy to cook, but now I cook because I'm lazy to drive... It's so simple.

[–] remon@ani.social 0 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I would argue that almost all eating in developed countries is for pleasure. Sure, we have to eat something but people will usually will eat something they enjoy.

Unless you're eating only to survive, have no other options or are a weirdo that purposefully eats stuff you don't like, I'd say your probably eating for pleasure.

[–] xep@discuss.online 2 points 1 day ago

There is a common saying for those of us doing zero carb. We eat so we may live, and not the other way around.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 2 days ago

Alright, but if everything is for pleasure - does that include drinking water as well?

How do differentiate emotional blackmail vs the standard "first world" eating is for pleasure?