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Stupid law
Money can be changed into something that isn't money, yet functionally works the same for a single transaction, very easily
Especially if you're already committing crimes
This is as effective as DRM; it hurts law abiding citizens more than those breaking the law
No that's not stupid. It adds a layer of friction for criminals. In Italy where this law already applies for 5000β¬ (before it was 2000) it helps reduce black market.
Source: I used to be paid in cash (illegally) and it was a pain in the ass to do anything so now I get paid lawfully and my boss pays taxes
No thatβs not stupid. It adds a layer of friction for criminals.
True criminals do not care. Mafia do not write invoices to sell/buy drugs or to pay a killer.
Source: I used to be paid in cash (illegally) and it was a pain in the ass to do anything so now I get paid lawfully and my boss pays taxes
Then the problem was not that your boss was paying you in cash but that he had the possibility to pay you under the table without (basically) any kind of risk.
Money can be changed into something that isn't money, yet functionally works the same for a single transaction, very easily
Shops usually don't accept "something that isn't money" as payment.
This measure aims to make it harder for criminals to wash their illicit money using legit businesses.
I don't know how I feel about this. Generally though I think I'm against it even if rich people do abuse whatever. What am I saying I'm definitely against this. They chose to use money, they chose to allow things to cost a lot more than 10,000 pounds but we can't pay with more than 10,000 pounds? Why? So we go through their Banks and bullshit. It's about control I presume.
Under the new rules, businesses and professionals selling goods or services will no longer be allowed to accept or make cash payments of β¬10,000 or more.
This doesn't apply to private transactions, by the way.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single example of a legitimate legal business that would be done using cash in that amount.
So while there's definitely a danger of the rules being tightened over time, this specific change here doesn't raise my concern too much.
What bothers me more is the utter lack of any effective measure against the true problem in tax fraud β those who do it at a truly large scale still get away without any punishment or control, and in fact sit at the table when the tax laws are written.
Nobody wants to see oligarchs getting away with cheating tax laws by handing over briefcases of cash, but if this new law does not affect private transactions that wouldn't even affect this.
I wonder what supposed ill this is supposed to cure do we know of any examples of businesses that have cheated taxes or whatever else by paying in cash?
I have known of more than one person that has paid for a house in cash and it was a smart move for them, by the time you get done with the mortgage you might end up paying 4 times more.
Did they actually hand over a bag full of cash?
Cause the other alternative isn't a mortgage, it's a bank transfer.
what supposed ill this is supposed to cure do we know of any examples of businesses that have cheated taxes or whatever else by paying in cash?
Come on. It happens everywhere, particulary in sales of services.
Restaurants not making receipts for a dinner avoid the value added sales tax and company tax. Nobody will notice the food missing.
The cleaner who takes cash doesn't pay income tax and can underbid the professionals. Nobody will notice that the cleaning has been done.
These might be small amount transactions, but once the pizza restaurant has 100 orders of β¬100 they have β¬10k.
Now how are they going to deposit or spend that without questions? They can of course use the cash to pay the cleaner a few times, but the stack of cash is going to increase. So they hire a carpenter to redo the floor. This costs more than 10k, and they pay him in cash. But then what's the carpenter going to do with the money if he can't spend it on a new car? He sure isn't going to eat pizza for β¬10k monthly. Maybe he can buy drugs illegally, but then the pusher has the problem with the stacks of cash.
By making larger cash amounts illegal it will put a limit on how much cash somebody even wants to accept as payment, even if they're okay with doing tax evasion and other crimes.
The small stuff transactions will still happen, but the amounts are going to be kept beneath the threshold of what people can actually use legally.
This will make it a lot more difficult for the pusher to launder the money. The money laundering criminals can no longer make a fake receipt for a β¬100k grand piano. Now they have to make 10 receipts for β¬10 upright pianos and at some point somebody is going to question where all those pianos are.
good to know cash bribes are still accepted
10,000 pounds
The UK is not part of the EU.
Well sure, typo whatever kind of foreign currency. Euros dollars pounds they're all about the same.
In the US the cops just steal it. Then in order to get it back, you have to go to court and prove that your money didn't commit a crime. Yes, really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States
Margarita machines dont pay for themselves.
Yea i love when most police raids for suspicion of drug dealing end up being something along the lines of "we broke into this person house and he had one half smoked joint and 10,000 dollars in bills" which of course means that the money is now proof of crime and belongs to the cops now
Inflation will do the rest.
Aaaand another little slice of personal freedom gone...
I never met anyone who paid β¬10,000 in cash. Like, how is someone able to carry all that much? In a suitcase? You'd also be a walking target for robbery if someone knows you are carrying a suitcase with β¬10,000 in cash. That amount is life changing for most ordinary Europeans. β¬10,000 is not going to make someone rich, but it's going towards savings for someone financially wise enough.
Edit: people are talking about it's possible to carry β¬10,000 cash by saying they have β¬100 notes. But I thought they are out circulation precisely because of money laundering and criminal transactions?
A couple of years ago i sold a car and was paid in cash (12.000 β¬), its not so much a problem to carry around... i mean, its only 24 500,- β¬ notes or 60 200,- β¬ notes, you surely don't need a suitcase, an envelope is absolutely enough.
Quite a few years ago I was in 'job learning' course from school in a local bank. They needed to move money to another bank across the street and there was some system update or interruption or whatever going on so it had to be done in cash. I don't remember the exact sum, but it was something like 300kβ¬. The lady who was assigned as my director took money (and counted it, made necessary paperwork and all the jazz) from the vault and put it in her purse in a bag meant for money transfers. It was roughly a book sized stack of bills which we then walked the short distance and the receiving bank made necessary paperwork on their side. I was there only because their insurance required there's two persons doing the delivery.
Also "a few" years ago I bought a car and the older gentleman who was selling insisted that I pay in cash. 7000β¬ can easily fit in your wallet.
20 β¬500 notes
50 β¬200 notes
100 β¬100 notes
No need to break out the luggage.
Another step towards eliminating anonymous payments and removing citizens' ability to exist without being constantly tracked by the state.
Another step towards the digital EU, where the banks can track all of your movements and the government can deny any purchases they donβt like.
Get fucked.
This is basically the Scandinavian model. Have never had a transfer blocked in the last decade. Good thing we don't have US government here in Europe, so we don't need to adopt the US scepticism of government.
As if rich scum haven't been paying each other with "gifts" that were awfully money-shaped already. This fixes nothing.
Good. In Italy we have a 5,000 limit and it indeed prevents some illegal payments.
The limit only make some illegal payments (like under the table payments) only a little more inconvenient, it does not prevent them.
Bad, because running all payments through banking system is a systemic safety risk.
If banking gets paralyzed like in Greece during debt crisis you'll be fucked.
Isnβt organised crime 10% of Italian GDP?
Isn't this the case for like a decade already?
Hold up, does this effect the ability to purchase outright cars and homes? The article doesn't go into detail about what is considered "goods and services".
Cash here refers to physical currency. It's not mandating that you take a loan for large purchases if that's what you're thinking.
It doesn't. You can still buy a house, or a car, just not with cash.