"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
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(caution of biased source)
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Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
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If the workers own the means of production, how are there billionaires?
Um, obviously, sweatie, these billionaires really ARE the hard workers Westoid billionaires only wish they were!
Also, China has never bullied its neighbours.
That is bullshit, they are actively doing so at sea.
I feel that many conflate capitalism with commerce.
China literally has private companies and a very uneven wealth distribution and barely any social safety net. I would definitely not say the workers are in control there. Sure the party has a strong influence and they decide what flies, but that doesn't mean they're socialist. The party elite has become its own kind of elite and not "the people"
Yeah I argued 'markets get shit done' until someone drove a thin wedge by saying 'capitalism is the part where owning things makes money.'
For all the reading and bickering these people do, most are useless at conveying a message. Just using the word "property," like anyone not inculcated understands their specific sharp-edged definition, has been a constant obstacle for the last century and a half.
The stock market was the smartest thing the ownership class ever invented. Pretend that every pleb has ownership of a company, even though they get no say in its finances or operations. Why would you fight against a system that you supposedly benefit from?
Yes, but in this case, considering China's large private sector reliant on the exchange of stocks as a means of providing an investor class with ownership of, and return on, the profits of the proletariat, China's gonna fit into a capitalist definition.
Capitalism has always technically been viable, in the same way benevolent monarchies/autocracies are viable. They don't generally occur, or last when they do occur on a fluke. That's always been the problem with them. And why power should be diluted/subject to consent.
"Viable, but not desirable" is how I generally think of it. Or, at least, as viable as any other system literally invented before fucking sociology.
We have better options now. It's just on us to discover them by mass implementation.
Agreed
And that's not even the case with China
Nope, heavy concentration of power with plenty abuse. But to tankies the fact that they will imprison and kill the petit bourgeoisie that cross the party. Makes the petit bourgeoisie still existing somehow okay.