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Ukraine and the West are facing a devastating defeat
(www.telegraph.co.uk)
Look at the Russian shills in this thread. Y'all know they're committing war crimes, right?
Have you talked with anyone about our positions? I ask because if you were to reduce our position down to one simple aspect of it, it would be “America bad,” with no trace of “Russia good.” Some people actually do try to make fun of us by saying all we care about is “America bad,” and that does, at least, show some indication of having basic familiarity with our takes.
Communists want the war to end and blame NATO for provoking and prolonging it. Naturally, this is not from a place of cheerleading for another oligarchical government, like Russia. There is a lot of background to explain, if you just popped in and are unfamiliar.
I love how people here are so polite, even to trolls that come just to stir shit up.
And they hate us for that.
Interesting how quickly these articles have started popping up. Not even a week ago they were all "Ukraine's super duper successful counteroffensive is about to win the war! They'll be in Moscow by Tuesday!"
I wonder if the libs will get whiplash from this. Hopefully it makes them actually analyse things a bit more closely so they don't get so easily fooled. Though who am I kidding? They'll just declare that they knew this all along and pretend they never supported Ukraine.
I definitely expect Ukraine will get thrown under the bus and the west will say they didn't follow their brilliant advice. There was already wapo article where they're like Ukraine is reverting back to their old tactics instead of using the brilliant combined arms warfare we taught them. Never mind that the first two weeks of the offensive when they lost 20% of their western equipment and who knows how many people, was them using the CoMbiNeD ArMs tactics NATO taught them. The reality is that Russia has huge minefields, massive artillery superiority, and air dominance. There are no magic tactics that can defeat that.
Oh, I didn't even think of that. You're right, they'll probably blame Ukraine for "fumbling" what should've been an "easy victory" They'll be demoted back to "Asiatic horde" status soon enough I suppose.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens once it starts sinking in for the Ukrainians that they're going to be discarded like a used condom by the west.
Will it start, though? Look at Russian liberals. Still hasn't clicked. Most are still blaming our issues on "Sovoks" in government and believe Putin is building USSR 2.0
I think there's going to be a profound psychological impact once it becomes clear that Ukraine isn't going to win the war because the west abandoned them. There's also going to be political motivation for whoever is in charge to cultivate this view since blaming the failure of the west to provide support will increasingly be the excuse from the regime. We're already seeing the start of that with Zaluzhny blaming the failure of the offensive on lack of F16s and air defence.
It's important to recall that the reason Ukraine decided to renege on the peace deal in March was because the west said they would back them to the end whatever it takes. Ukrainians bought into the whole mythology that the west has unlimited resources, and can just give them whatever they need indefinitely.
Now the tap is running dry, and I think Ukrainians are going to interpret it as the west not wanting to give them what they need as opposed to genuinely not being able to. It's impossible for them to believe that Russia could possibly outproduce the west and defeat western weapons on the battlefield. This goes against the whole narrative of western superiority.
There’s also going to be political motivation for whoever is in charge to cultivate this view since blaming the failure of the west to provide support will increasingly be the excuse from the regime. We’re already seeing the start of that with Zaluzhny blaming the failure of the offensive on lack of F16s and air defence.
Thing is, this type of "stab in the back" narrative would still require an unhealthy amount of nationalism (think British "lions led by donkeys" shite from WW1), and this will inevitably clash with the annexation (can't think of a different term at the moment) of Crimea, DNR, Zaporozhye, etc.
And frankly it won't undo the damage already done by weapons and infrastructure destruction, nor will it help bring socialism to the region
CoMbiNeD ArMs tactics NATO taught them
They forgot the most important element of the combination in these "combined arms" - bribing the everliving crap out of enemy leaders and fostering fifth columns.
Not that there weren't attempts, but hardly to the degree of Iraq
this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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