this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2025
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.works 42 points 6 days ago (3 children)
[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (7 children)

Unfortunately it does not have to be satirical. We have this idiot professor of economics, Reiner Eichenberger, in Switzerland who calculated the same kind of shit for an article in a business newspaper (Handelszeitung).

He said an efficient car using 5 l or 12 kg CO2 per 100 km with four people is more efficient than a cyclist who needs 2500 kcal per 100 km, so they have to eat 1 kg of beef which emits 13.3 kg CO2. Therefore the people in the car are 4 times as efficient per passenger kilometers.

People got quite cross, there were replies by other professors in other magazines to tear him and his shitty assumptions to shreds.

[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 26 points 6 days ago (2 children)
  • He assumed this ridiculous beef-only diet. Potatoes or pasta would be around 0.5 kg.

  • He included CO2 in the production of the beef but not of the gas. That would amount to another 50% or so.

  • He assumed a more efficient than average car for Switzerland, 7l would have been fairer. And on shorter distances it gets worse, e.g. on daily commutes.

  • He assumed 4 people but cars on average carry around 1.5.

  • He ignored grey energy in the car and bike production, which would make the bike look way better. Whenever he's railing against EVs he includes grey energy because then it makes traditional cars look better.

  • There are also some hard to calculate benefits for public health in cycling.

  • Cycling for travel might substitute other sports activity that would have used the same amount of food.

  • Cyclists generally cover less distance than drivers. A 1-to-1 comparison the same distance might not be sensible in the first place. If you cycle you try to find nearby destinations, so from a public policy perspective encouraging more cyclists also implies less total distance traveled.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 6 points 6 days ago

Cyclists generally cover less distance than drivers.

My partner recently had her car MOT done and I can confirm I cycle more than she drives in a year. Would be very interested to know the average speed of each though as I can often cycle past cars that are waiting at the lights but the bike path is flowing freely.

[–] SolarBoy@slrpnk.net 5 points 6 days ago

Also, the driver and passengers still burn calories while just sitting in the car.

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[–] NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk 8 points 6 days ago

Or at least a dig at someone being overly pious. My brother for a while was unbearable about his 2 x EVs saving the world while living in a city with at least 6 public transport alternatives within 100m

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

Absolutely. It’s quite funny.

[–] DakRalter@thelemmy.club 25 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

My understanding is that humans pretty much use about the same amount of calories a day, whether sedentary or not. If you spend more on exercise, your body spends less on other things.

https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myths-about-how-humans-burn-calories-and-why

The amount your body uses just to stay alive dwarfs what you'd burn from adding cycling to your day.

Edited to add the "much" that I somehow deleted.

[–] HerbSolo@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Talk to a bike courier if you get the chance to. The amounts of calories they burn in a shift is ridiculous.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 days ago

my dad has tales of gymbro cowokers who can inhale like 3 pizzas in a sitting and still be hungry, yet they're not in the least pudgy

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Most people are way above the amount of calories they need. Doing more exercise just burns that excess and you need to do a ton more exercise to actually get to the point where you need to eat more to cover that surplus consumption.

So if you do an 8h cycling shift you might need to eat more. But if you just commute to work for an hour per day (half an hour per direction) you will not need to take in more calories.

[–] BobBarker@lemmy.zip 5 points 6 days ago

I think what it means is that yes, you can burn more calories in a given active session (working out for example) but the amount of calories you expend over a year for example, divided by the number of days, ends up being about the same regardless.

I guess one of the more popular reasons as to why is because your body is capable of compensating for high intensity sessions when you’re not as active, and being extremely active for long ends up burning you out so you can’t do it anymore (and you get sick or injured).

But from what I’ve seen, exercise is still really good for you, it’s just not exactly for the reasons we used to think. I know in my (very anecdotal) case, I actually eat less when I’m working out regularly just out of instinct. Maybe it’s my body’s way of going “we need to stay light because we have to run again tomorrow”?

[–] SolarBoy@slrpnk.net 6 points 6 days ago

There is a video from kurzgesagt on this very topic: link

[–] DakRalter@thelemmy.club 2 points 5 days ago

One other interesting thing is brown fat. Dr Karl told this story loads of times on the 5live science podcast, so it's bound to be in one of the 2010 or 2011 episodes.

Iirc: a group of women went to Antarctica and put an a lot of body fat beforehand. But even after that, the cold was so enough to make their bodies turn their white fat into brown fat and they lost a ton of weight.

Not the Dr Karl episode: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5nrBw8X5NhXxv04J7H1vn2J/the-body-fat-that-can-make-you-thin

So the answer is live somewhere freezing for a bit if you want to lose weight.

(In my case, for some reason eating chocolate helps keeps my tummy fat down. I ballooned after giving it up, even though the rest of my diet was the same.)

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 28 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

That's cute. No other personal vehicle beats the caloric efficiency of a bicycle, and it's not even close. They're very literally one of the most impressive feats of engineering that human kind has ever invented.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 6 points 6 days ago (10 children)

Electric bikes are more efficient one.

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[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I read a carbrain article a while ago that tried to argue that cyclists create more CO2 than a car.

So to compare that they assumed that

  • The cyclist eats exactly as much calories as required, so that extra exercise directly requires an increase of caloric intake. They did the same for the driver.
  • The cyclist exclusively covers the added caloric intake via imported japanese Kobe beef steak cooked on a wood grill.
  • The car was the lowest-consumption electic car they could find.

And with that setup the cyclist actually created more CO2.

The author seriously booked that as a win for the car, claiming that cycling is not always better for the environment than driving.

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 days ago

Wow that feels like an exercise in the absurd

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[–] plenipotentprotogod@lemmy.world 28 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Alright, I'll take the bait. Let's do some recreational math

This web page contains average passenger car fuel efficiency broken down by year. The most recent year available is 2016, so we'll use that: 9.4 km/L or 22.1 miles per gallon. A gallon of gas has about 120MJ of energy in it. So, an average car requires about 120,000,000 / (1/22.1) = 5.4MJ per mile

This web page has calories burned for different types of exercise. I separately searched and found that the average adult in the US weighs around 200LBS, so we'll use the 205LBS data, and I'm going to assume that "cycling - 10-11.9 MPH" is representative of the average commuter who isn't in too much of a hurry. That gives us 558 calories per hour, or 55.8 calories per mile (using the low end of the 10 to 11.9mph range). That's equal to about 0.23MJ per mile (as an aside, it's important to note that the calories commonly used when talking about diet and exercise, are actual kilocalories equal to 1000 of the SI calories you learned about in school.)

Moral of the story: an average bike ride consumes around 20x less energy than an average drive of the same distance.

[–] Redex68@lemmy.world 23 points 6 days ago (1 children)

We also gotta keep in mind that cycling makes people healthier, so it has that benefit, and that it can also potentially replace some exercise people would be doing otherwise, in which case you're basically moving for free since you would have expanded those calories anyways.

[–] bollybing@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 6 days ago

You mean I don't have to drive to the gym anymore if I cycle to work?

[–] Nelots@lemmy.zip 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Worth noting that cars can fit more people in them than bikes can.

So with that in mind, clearly the true moral of the story is that clown cars are the most efficient method of travel.

[–] bluesheep@sh.itjust.works 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You joke but are kind of right. But it only starts making sense when you quite literally start moving bus loads of people.

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[–] dillekant@slrpnk.net 17 points 6 days ago

If this is true, then support a carbon tax without exceptions. All the extra food cyclists use will be taxed extra.

[–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 6 days ago (18 children)

We're more energy effiecient than cars.

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[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 20 points 6 days ago

No one tell them how many calories are in a tank of gas

[–] MTK@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

If you drive in a 25 miles per gallon vehicle (pretty standard) you will burn the equivalent of 1100 calories per mile. Assuming an active person who rides their bike a lot eats around 2500 calories a day, and they ride to work every day, and they live 5 miles away. In the car you would burn about 11,000 calories a day, in the bike you would never burn more than 2,500 and that ignores the fact that actually most of those calories have nothing to do with the biking.

Also, one year of an average American driving (around 14,000 miles) would have the equivalent calories of giving 16,000 people a proper meal.

[–] spacesatan@leminal.space 16 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Every type of anti-environmental person seems to just have no grasp of numbers as a concept. I worked in wind for a while and one coworker was a guy taking a break from the oilfield. He really thought he had something when he was like 'golly is that an oil based lubricant? in a supposedly green energy? hyuk hyuk looks like oil isn't going anywhere.'[this is barely an exaggeration he was a walking caricature of a hick] Just absolutely 0 ability to perceive a difference between burning 100 gallons a day of something vs using 10 gallons a year.

[–] bollybing@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 6 days ago

Similar vibe to "you claim to be vegan and yet you eat bread, and some field mice probably got killed when harvesting the wheat to make it. Checkmate, I've just invalidated your entire belief. Why aren't you ordering the steak now?"

[–] BenchpressMuyDebil@szmer.info 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

If the the Dutch are so climate couscous maybe they should invent energy-free travel

[–] mcv@lemmy.zip 12 points 6 days ago

I've got to upvote you for "climate couscous". Sounds delicious.

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Trains are very energy efficient. Is this person advocating for putting trains on every road?

[–] TheHotze@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

Ohh noooo. I guess if it's the only way.

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