this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2025
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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MODERATORS
 

Communities should not be overly moderated in order to enforce a specific narrative. Respectful disagreement should be allowed in a smaller proportion to the established narrative.

Humans are naturally inclined to believe a single narrative when they're only presented with a single narrative. That's the basis of how fiction works. You can't tell someone a story if they're questioning every paragraph. However, a well placed sentence questioning that narrative gives the reader the option to chose. They're no longer in a story being told by one author, and they're free to choose the narrative that makes sense to them, even if one narrative is being pushed much more heavily than the other.

Unfortunately, some malicious actors are hijacking this natural tendency to be invested in fiction, and they're using it to create absurd, cult-like trends in non-fiction. They're using this for various nefarious ends, to turn us against each other, to generate profit, and to affect politics both domestically and internationally.

In a fully anonymous social media platform, we can't counter this fully. But we can prune some of the most egregious echo chambers.

We're aware that this policy is going to be subjective. It won't be popular in all instances. We're going to allow some "flat earth" comments. We're going to force some moderators to accept some "flat earth" comments. The point of this is that you should be able to counter those comments with words, and not need moderation/admin tools to do so. One sentence that doesn't jive with the overall narrative should be easily countered or ignored.

It's harder to just dismiss that comment if it's interrupting your fictional story that's pretending to be real. "The moon is upside down in Australia" does a whole lot more damage to the flat earth argument than "Nobody has crossed the ice wall" does to the truth. The purpose of allowing both of these is to help everyone get a little closer to reality and avoid incubating extreme cult-like behavior online.

A user should be able to (respectfully, infrequently) post/comment about a study showing marijuana is a gateway drug to !marijuana without moderation tools being used to censor that content.

Of course this isn't about marijuana. There's a small handful of self-selected moderators who are very transparently looking to push their particular narrative. And they don't want to allow discussion. They want to function as propaganda and an incubator. Our goal is to allow a few pinholes of light into the Truman show they wish to create. When those users' pinholes are systematically shut down, we as admins can directly fix the issue.

We don't expect this policy to be perfect. Admins are not aware of everything that happens on our instances and don't expect to be. This is a tool that allows us to trim the most extreme of our communities and guide them to something more reasonable. This policy is the board that we point to when we see something obscene on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com so that we can actually do something about it without being too authoritarian ourselves. We want to enable our users to counter the absolute BS, and be able to step in when self-selected moderators silence those reasonable people.

Some communities will receive an immediate notice with a link to this new policy. The most egregious communities will comply, or their moderators will be removed from those communities.

Moderators, if someone is responding to many root comments in every thread, that's not "in a smaller proportion" and you're free to do what you like about that. If their "counter" narrative posts are making up half of the posts to your community, you're free to address that. If they're belligerent or rude, of course you know what to do. If they're just saying something you don't like, respectfully, and they're not spamming it, use your words instead of your moderation abilities.

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[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

So c/world will start allowing all sources of news?

[–] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I would be happy enough if its moderator stopped instigating and escalating conflict with individual community members.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago

No? Is it necessary to go to terrible sources in order to make your point?

[–] Squorlple@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

A zero tolerance policy against zero tolerance policies against intolerance and mis/dis/malinformation? The explanation was a bit figurative language heavy.

[–] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

yeah I don't really follow. Would be better if they gave a direct example of it.

I assume !usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world banning people who disagree with the mod, and that vegan one banning actual vegans for being "fake" are what's being talked about, but I'm not sure.

Some clarification would be nice.

[–] Sunshine@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 week ago (5 children)

A restaurant that serves animal products is flexitarian not vegan. Definitions should not be watered down. Anyone who advocates for the use of animal products contradicts the definition of veganism:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

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[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

My take is we Admins are just running the community for the users of it and Mods are caretakers of their communities. The idea that communities are a Mods personal fiefdom seems to be a holdover from Reddit and just seems like it can/will lead to power-tripping.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It is generally a good idea to have multiple mods and it should be encouraged for mods to have a back-channel to coordinate (we for example offer a XMPP based chat system for members of our instance) so that less moderation decisions are self-involved and made in the heat of the moment. But ultimately the idea that the mods are the ones that are in control of a community is the least bad of the various alternatives, and certainly admin overreach is more problematic than mod overreach, as people can easily switch to another community if they don't like the mods' decisions in one community.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

as people can easily switch to another community if they don’t like the mods’ decisions in one community.

I know it's true in theory, but in practice if the mod is really power tripping (so banning everyone mentioning the alternative), it's quite hard to achieve. It took me months to get people to the alternative community, and even now people still post there from time to time.

[–] blindbunny@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

I would say just block .world but I think they need exposure therapy. Fuck the police

[–] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] superkret@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think Reddit is dysfunctional because people are dysfunctional. My hope is to be able to address that by improving people's health & function via the gut microbiome.

wat

[–] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

There's a citation there. You didn't want to click it and learn something new?

EDIT: Interesting. The majority of people on lemmy are anti-learning...

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[–] hal_5700X@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 week ago

You're trying cut back on echo chambers and power tripping mods. I like this, but I wonder how this going to play out.

[–] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 week ago

I support you in this decision. To me, Lemmy is fundamentally about the free exchange of ideas, independent from the prevailing mainstream dogma. This platform was built to accommodate a diversity of experiences and viewpoints, and allow people to engage with unfamiliar perspectives without being overwhelmed by them.

This policy only applies to lemmy.world, it doesn't apply to every server on the fediverse. If the complainers truly feel that their experience is being negatively impacted by this policy, then go ahead and move to one of the many servers that maintain the policy of removing and banning opposing viewpoints on sight. There's absolutely nothing wrong with finding your preferred walled garden and savoring that environment.

But if Lemmy is just a collection of echo chambers, there won't be any space for people to hash out their differences of opinion, and we will just become more isolated and out of touch. As the largest server in the network, I think it's quite suitable for lemmy.world to explicitly advocate for a diversity of viewpoints, and I believe it will ultimately benefit the platform as a whole.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org -1 points 1 week ago

This policy is the board that we point to when we see something obscene on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com so that we can actually do something about it without being too authoritarian ourselves.

Any comment on this one?

https://lemmy.world/post/23229045

I checked the thread, those comments are still removed: https://lemmy.world/comment/13966483

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Communities should not be overly moderated

You should have stopped at that.

Pretty much the only comments/posts which should be removed are these posted by bots, these outright illegal, these supporting nazism (in all it's iterations, including bashing racial/sexual minorities and migrants) and supporting genocide.

[–] Sunshine@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 week ago

I respectfully disagree with this policy change as debate communities have their place in allowing discourse on topics.

[–] autonomoususer@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago (3 children)

FlyingSquid is known to violate this on /c/world

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[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee -1 points 1 week ago

Holy shit lw finally makes a good moderation decision. This is great this will open up lemmy to more free speach make it more welcoming to normies with opinions that differ from the lemmy echochamber.

This will not be popular but it is nessasary to ensure lemmy and Activpub can become mainstream and continue to maintain its open nature.

This is brilliant.

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