Focus: United Airlines grapples with pilots avoiding the captain's chair (www.reuters.com)

submitted 1 year ago by brihuang95@sopuli.xyz to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] wagesof@links.wageoffsite.com 55 points 1 year ago

So they know the problem, pay increase isn't worth the bullshit surrounding the promotion, and they know the fix.

Will they create more stable schedules or bump the pay to make it worth their captain's time?

Fuck no. Let's just cancel a bunch of flights because no one wants to work

[-] AnotherPerson@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

And then bitch about it publicly to try and create pressure on the pilots. Sorry UA, the class warfare stuff is out of the bag, I'm with the pilots

[-] acosmichippo@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago

Unless you think the airline can just eat the cost of raises, I'm not so sure it's a simple case of class warfare. Airlines operate on very thin margins, so any increase in costs would have to lead to increased prices for customers.

[-] wagesof@links.wageoffsite.com 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Airlines make record profits every year, and are run on razor thin margins. The wildest thing is that the flights themselves are a loss leader for the insanely profitable travel points scam they've been running since the 60s.

Stop extracting 80% of the profits for the investment class from the tourism industry and paying the pilots triple their current wages would be simple.

Never believe a corporation when they complain about labor costs. It's always a lie

[-] acosmichippo@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

Stop extracting 80% of the profits for the investment class from the tourism industry and paying the pilots triple their current wages would be simple.

not that simple. stop extracting profits, then no one wants ownership of the company anymore.

[-] hglman@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

I'm sure the employees do.

[-] acosmichippo@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

so you’re jumping from a relatively minor quirk in labor staffing to a socialist takeover of a multibillion dollar business. be realistic, it ain’t happening.

[-] hglman@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Other than employees already run the business.

[-] AnotherPerson@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Stop carrying water for millionaires.

[-] hglman@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

But how will they stay rich?

[-] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

i’m not carrying water for millionaires, just being realistic about the capitalist world we live in.

[-] CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

If everyone "stays realistic" about the way the world is then the reality is the world stays the way it is. If enough people expect the unrealistic outcome then maybe it could be real.

[-] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

firstly, you don't have "enough" socialists to make that kind of change, and secondly if you're stuck in an idealist mindset then you may miss on good solutions just because they aren't perfect in your opinion.

[-] Galluf@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

You obviously didn't read the article as creating more stable schedules is exactly what they're doing.

Is it enough, probably not. But let's not make up lies.

[-] teutoburg1@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago

As a pilot the problem with upgrading early is seniority dictates QOL. A junior captain needs to work a junior base, fly a junior plane, and get whatever crappy trips are left in the schedule. That means that a senior First Officer would have to move or commute to a new city until they build enough seniority to go back to where they want to live all while working the worst schedule, or even worse sitting on reserve. Absolutely not worth the pay bump when you can wait a little longer and not have to deal with all that.

[-] wagesof@links.wageoffsite.com 2 points 1 year ago

Have you done the mental math about where the pay would make it worth your while?

[-] teutoburg1@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Hard to say, upgrade means going to a junior base which are almost universally high COL areas and you'd need to either move there or rent a crash pad for several months to several years until you can go back.

In my case, I'm lucky enough to have 0 ex-wives and no kids to put through college so I'm in a comfortable position money wise. It would take a pretty big chunk of money for me to take the hastle to upgrade until I could hold my base.

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 10 points 1 year ago

It sounds like they need to figure out how to merge the two lists to give junior captains some time not fully on call. Maybe allow senior first officers to be standby captains one week out of the month to ease them into the role.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Or just increase pay. Supply and demand.

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 9 points 1 year ago

The senior first officers are noting QoL issues as the major reason they are not choosing to be junior captains. If a 40% increase in salary isn't enough to get people to make the jump, maybe the solution is to change the quality of life for junior captains.

It might also be cheaper for the airline to make the cutoff more flexible in a way that is acceptable to the pilots' union.

[-] Duvidl@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

That clearly didn't work. A 40 percent increase is plenty, but it seems people don't want their jobs to dictate their personal lives. Which is fair, I guess.

They need to change the expectations tha t come with the junior captain's seat. Or force senior captains to be a bit more lenient, too.

The alternative is having no captains anymore, soon.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Obviously a 40% increase was not plenty, or this wouldn't be a problem. For example, I wouldn't take a 40% pay increase to be constantly on call. A 200% increase, yes I would do that. So there is a number for me, I'm just not sure exactly what it is.

There will always be people who refuse at any price, but you don't need to convince everyone. You just need enough captains to keep scheduled flights from being cancelled. There's a number that gets you there, and the only thin we know for sure is that it's more than 40%.

Fwiw I'm not disagreeing with your first point. Reducing the demand on captains could also help.

[-] AnotherPerson@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

If we're going to live in a supply and demand economy that works it needs to apply to both labor and goods. I'm all here for this.

[+] Slow2Final@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

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[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 2 points 1 year ago

It is a regulated position, but it sounds like the issue is that United can't get first officer pilots who are otherwise qualified to be captain to get that certification.

I doubt there is a rule stating that a qualified captain can't fly as a first officer.

[+] Slow2Final@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

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[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 points 1 year ago

And the answer to your first paragraph is to give them the good schedule of first officer for three weeks of the month and the bad schedule of captain for one week. Pilots may be willing to tolerate a crappy schedule for part of their month instead of the whole month.

And the qualifications of being a captain flow from the experience of being a first officer on an aircraft. In order to be a captain on a flight, you need to qualify to be a first officer. So, it isn't like United has to pay for maintaining two separate certifications, just the more onerous one. And you make the dual flight role optional. You let pilots decide if they want to fly in a captain role at captain pay all the time or if they are willing to sacrifice pay for seniority on a schedule for a majority of the month. Let the union vote on it as an option.