Let me preface by saying, I would love to hear counter points and am fully open to the fact that I could be wrong and totally out of touch. I just want to have some dialogue around something that’s been bothering me in the fediverse.
More and more often I keep hearing people refer to “normies”. I think by referring to other people as “normies”, whether you intend to or not, you inadvertently gatekeep and create an exclusive environment rather than an inclusive one in the fediverse.
If I was not that familiar with the fediverse and decided to check it out and the first thing I read was a comment about “normies”, I would quite honestly be very put off. It totally has a negative connotation and doesn’t even encapsulate any one group. I just read a comment about someone grouping a racist uncle and funny friend into the same category of normie because they aren’t up to date on the fediverse or super tech savvy or whatever.
I don’t want to see any Meta bs in the fediverse. I barely want to see half of the stuff from Reddit in the fediverse. I don’t want to see the same echo chamber I do everywhere else.
I do want to see more users and more perspectives and a larger user base though. I want to see kindness and compassion. I want to talk to people about topics they are interested in. I want to have relevant discussions without it dissolving into some commentary on some unrelated hot topic thing.
I think calling people normies creates a more toxic, exclusive place which I personally came here to avoid.
Just my two cents! I know for most people using the term it isn’t meant to be malicious, but I think it comes off that way.
Love to hear all of your thoughts.
I'm with you on this one, in a vacuum I don't really have a problem with the term "normie" but here it is completely being used as gatekeeping.
This whole meta controversy has really caused some brain rot, a lot of people talk about this place as if it's better because it "gatekeeps". They say they enjoy this place because it is niche and doesn't have the "below room temperature IQ posters" (actual quote I saw)
I don't like this attitude, I really don't like it. It is way to common on the internet, especially for hobby communities to have this attitude.
Exactly, pushing people away is not how you grow a platform
Like, what happened to just downvoting low effort or low “quality” posts? Do we have to pass IQ tests to allow users on Lemmy now?
Yuuup.
Or if you really care about not seeing "mass appeal social media content", like, just don't join those communities????
Like the whole "it's better if those people aren't on this platform" is so stupid when you consider the entire aspect of fragmentation going on for federated communities..
I disagree entirely.
Gatekeeping has a negative connotation to it, and it can be used negatively. But gatekeeping is also necessary if you want to maintain a good community.
The increase of ease of use of social media and internet at large, and making it available to the very general public is what caused social media to become a toxic waste dump of misinformation, low effort content and lack of critical thought.
The difference of quality of reddit between 10 years ago and today is absolutely staggering. Reddit is practically unusable outside of small communities.
The relative difficulty of using the internet acted as a natural gatekeeping mechanism to keep your racist uncle Bob and your antivax aunt Karen away. Now they can join by clicking a few buttons on their phone.
Since that no longer works, the communities need to take gatekeeping into their own hands. Otherwise, it can be overrun by people people who are just stupid, to be frank.
Hmm. I think you’re right to an extent. I think the gatekeeping you’re talking about should come from the server level and block anything from meta or from other servers with those kinds of people.
Using the word “normie” can be off putting to people we do want on this platform which is kind of my point.
(TLDR: if you only read one thing make it so its the last paragraph, it is the main argument anyways the first part was more of the rationale behind it)
I disagree with your notion. Although I feel there are two meanings for gatekeeping clashing. First there is gatekeeping in a traditional sense, which is filtering. As in you need to meet certain requirements, be it that your post sticks to the rules, moderation would technically be gatekeeping here as it rejects the content made by the people who dont adhere to what the community has determined. In this sense it is good
Then there is the "urban" meaning of the world (not sure if that is the word in english for popular use of words) where here in the internet gatekeeping is more referred to keeping something "pure" by excluding people out, or for keeping a sense of elitism. I feel almost all fandoms went through this phase during the early 2010s late 2000s, just as an example if you ever said you liked anime but had only watched shōnen you would have been mocked by every single person on the forum. Gaming communities have also been incredibly toxic in this regards, need I remind you of the entire GamerGate era...
Sure this two meanings can conflate, but by dividing I can explain why I am opposed to the second attitude while not minding the first. The gatekeeping by the communities, which is necessary as you say to keep good communities is certainly good. Of course we need moderation and rules to make communities work, even really heavy moderation and exclusions can be good as long as they are rational and serve a particular purpose like what r/askhistorias did by removing 99% of comments.
But the attitude of "things are better now because you have to be really smart to be here" is a stupid elitist notion, change it a bit and its the same argument that has been used to gatekeep hobbies so strongly instead of fostering someone's interest in a thing into something better. Here what we need is not to "keep those people out" but instead we need to embrace them and push them to make better content. Simple as, we designate the rules and we create the content that becomes the standard. Communities are far better shaped by setting a standard of appropriate conduct that people who are joining replicate instead of outright denying some people because they are "normies" that will ruin things for us.
Don't confuse community and platform. Fediverse is meant to be diverse by nature. You can gatekeep a server I suppose, but be careful with how ridiculously vague many people define the term here and you're ready to ban those people. Treating everyone in a made up group as if they're all the same is not a behavior you want to get in the habit of.
Yes, that is exactly how I feel! It honestly makes me kind of sad because I truly love how awesome of a space a lot of these communities are and I think people don’t realize the effect that words and attitudes like that have on the greater experience and vibe.
If anything has become clear over the years is that IQ has no correlation with saying smart or sensible things. There are very smart people out there that keep posting stupid things.
It's almost as if IQ measures nothing but your ability to write IQ tests.
Almost.