this post was submitted on 27 May 2024
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This is just straight up racist propaganda. No other way to describe it
Absolutely factually incorrect. Sabaya is the plural of sabiye which means young woman/girl. The masculine form is sabi which means boy or shab for young man (not exactly symmetric like use of guy vs girl in english). Zero sexual connotation and used in everyday language in levantine arabic.
Yep. And the subheading I really have a problem with.
The implication being that it's low stakes to make this accusation without solid evidence. In reality the whole justification from the West for the state of affairs between Israel and Palestine is that Arabs are a bunch of backwards savages, and this extends to the way the West has acted throughout the Middle East.
Honestly, the use of the word "moderns" is enough to tell you it's a racist interpretation.
Isn't Sabaya just like Senorita where they indicate an unmarried young woman? Or, like, Miss?
Pretty much yes. (Ma)demoiselle vs madame are also used due to french influence over the region for singular use but sabaya is what you would use for a group of younger women with neswein being the alternative for older/married women.
You are confusing سبايا captives (male or female the word is genderless) with صبايا young women
At the time, I watched the video and I didn't even catch the word so I thought the claim came from other footage and I was under the impression that it was deliberate misrepresentation of words. I went back to listen to the part where he says it but I still couldn't make it out definitively (maybe that's on me if you can).
They said هاي السبايا " those are captives".
The Arabic word for female slaves are إماء Imaa' and جواري Jawari and singular female slave are أمة Amat and جارية Jariyat.
This article from November of last year would dispute your claim.
So both of those words are spelled sabaya when anglicized and while I will admit I was not familiar with the soft s variant because it's antiquated (and still not necessarily sexual in meaning even if that one is debatable), it doesn't sound like the man in the video who is supposed to have said that even said either of those words to me. I genuinely can't even make out what the word he said is.
Why is this the subject of debate nearly 8 months after the fact?
Because the hostage families decided to release recovered footage to put additional pressure on getting them released.
Also, because I went down the rabbit hole trying to find info on this stuff, I think I’ll share additional evidence I gathered. Specifically that sabaya (or saby for short) has been used in the context of ISIS taking female slaves (often for sex).
From Infatuated with Martyrdom Female Jihadism from Al-Qaeda to the ‘Islamic State’
Clippings from Dabiq Magazine (English Language Magazine Published by ISIS):
From the infamous Reddit AMA: https://archive.ph/s2tqH
I see the publisher of the above is Friedrich Ebert Stiftung. Could you share a link in relation to how they perceive zionism?
After that link I literally added redacted screenshots of a primary source that was published by ISIS
It does not matter what the publisher of the document in the first link thinks about Zionism. I don’t know and I don’t care.
Ok, no link. I'll go to another point.
You try to present arguments against Hamas by talking about ISIS. ISIS and Hamas are not interchangeable words, and Hamas is not ISIS.
Also even if I don't speak any variation of arabic it is well known that words can have different meaning in different places in which the same language is officially spoken. We have many examples of english speaking people that use the same word differently, like very differently.
So what are you really trying to do?
Come back when you actually know something instead of vaguely gesturing at possibilities. My argument and sources were clear. I spent too much time digging already, and forgive me if I don’t want to spend even more time researching every suggestion for your 9 day old Lemmy account.
There is an obvious cultural connection between different Arabic Islamic extremist groups in the Middle East. Yes there will be cultural differences, and differences in dialect, but the meaning of this word isn’t one of them.
Removed, civility.
jordanlund I must admit that I do not see what was uncivil about my response. I will try and rephrase:
Please, civility.
As I mentioned above, this was left behind. My statement was clear about this: Ok, no link. I’ll go to another point. Also, I really don't see how the number of days I am on this platform is relevant to anything we are discussing here.
Yes, clear and irrelevant to your point. They are about ISIS, not Hamas. Again, Hamas and ISIS are not interchangeable words.
Because you say so? I'm sorry, you failed to provide evidence to support your claim.
Taking into consideration the above, I think it is obvious that I don't see any point continuing this interaction. I find the way you approached it, infantile.
The comment removed:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=7867023
"How old are you? Are you 5?"
Yeah, that's a civility removal.
I just saw there is an explanation on how this community defines civil:
My intentions were not to belittle anyone, I was just totally unimpressed by the level of immaturity this user showed in their replies, and wanted to point that out. And I hope this point was clear in my rephrasing. I take this comment removal as a motivation to use more words, so it is obvious what I mean.
I’m going to reply one more time out of the hope you actually are confused about my response, and aren’t simply sealioning.
Troll accounts are prevalent on this platform. So much so that certain apps flag new accounts to users.
I do not disagree with that statement. However, that is not what I am saying.
The influence of ISIS on the Middle East, in Arabic language, and in the culture of similar Militant Islamic Extremist groups is clear and obvious. It colors the world in which the Hamas Militant spoke. It is only logical that he would choose words to frighten, and degrade those whom he was fighting against.
No. Because the word spoken has a specific meaning in the culture/context in which it was spoken. The only argument that makes any sense against this, is that he actually said a different but similarly pronounced word.
Good retort