469
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
469 points (97.0% liked)
Today I Learned
17686 readers
1284 users here now
What did you learn today? Share it with us!
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
A new perspective from this article on the topic I haven't heard before is that what you're describing may not be the "inner voice" being referred to.
I'm going to assume your native language is English (forgive me, replace with your own native language). When you're having this internal debate, are your points and counterpoints in actual English language with a sentence structure noun+verb+adjective? This is what I'm reading in the article they say "inner voice" is.
Or instead is it abstract concepts stacked on top and next to each other for comparison?
According to my read of the article, the first would be the "inner voice", the second would NOT be. I have the second, not the first. How about you?
no its totally words and sentences. I can't honestly don't know what my thoughts are outside of that except for visualizing things and like subconsicous things like hunches. Not sure if its related but im one of those people who if I say something its also whats going through my head and actually if im alone enough I just start verbalizing the internal dialogue. Like when I walk the dog I will talk with her. hmmm weather said no rain but those clouds look like they could rain so maybe I should have brought my rain hat but oh well we should finish up soon enough I don't think we will go far on this one want to be able to get home quick if I need to.........
That's amazing to me! It would be so much extra effort for me to put things in words to think on them first. The only time I do that is when I'm testing how it will sound to someone else. Even then, I'll build the sentences, and then simulate a person hearing them in concept with what I know of the audience to see how they would receive it, and what concepts they draw from what I say. Then I adjust the words as needed to get the thoughts across to the audience.
The best metaphor I can think to describe it is assembling a jigsaw puzzle. You don't need to describe the shape of the piece to be able to find a matching piece it fits into. The shape, size, edge, color, and pattern all inform you of where it will fit. That's kind of a hunch. This conceptual thinking works similarly. There are "attachment points" to each concept that link them together with other mental abstracted concepts. There are places that don't fit which let you know the pieces are unrelated.
For me it's not that I can't think without words, it's just that the words are very useful tools for organizing my thoughts. I've been doing it all my life though so it doesn't really require more effort than thinking in concepts. It's like breathing, it happens automatically but I can stop or control it if I want to. When I stop my inner voice I would describe my thoughts as sort of fuzzy and ephemeral. I would easily forget them or have difficulty expressing them without first putting them into words.
I've found the opposite. The older I get, the "expensive" words are to use. The concept when in mind is so complex and nuanced, to use a word for it shaves off all that complexity and nuance and collapses the thought into the limits of the definition of that word. When it becomes a word, its...less, a mostly formed shadow of what it was. That's the price of communicating it to others.
We operate oppositely in this, which is wonderful! For you it sounds like the thoughts don't have meaning until you choose words and make them concrete. Like your thoughts are liquid and fluid, but you're able to make them solid and meaningful by confining them in words. For me, I do the best I can with choosing a word, sometimes dusting off old antiques, to try to match as close as possible to the concept. Sometimes I have found words in other languages sometimes fit better because of a closer match of concepts or properties. That too has its drawbacks, as using that would lose your audience when you're trying to communicate an idea.
If a word does not adequately describe what I'm thinking I just use more words, or I get creative with them and use them in new ways. I guess that's what makes me prone to getting lost in thought for long periods of time or being very long winded when I'm talking to people. When I'm talking about something I've recently been very interested in people often have to cut me off because I'll essentially start verbalizing my thought process to them and forget they're there.
I try the same and have the same result!
yeah to find the matching piece I might visualize it but like I could not look for a piece without talking to myself about sifting through the pieces and how this ones not quite right and such.