Update:
The comments from this post will not be removed as to preserve the discussion around the announcement. Any continued discussions outside of this thread that violate server rules will be removed. We feel that everyone that has an opinion, and wanted to vent, has been heard.
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Original post:
Yesterday, we received information about the planned federation by Hexbear. The announcement thread can be found here: https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770. After reviewing the thread and the comments, it became evident that allowing Hexbear to federate would violate our rules.
Our code of conduct and server rules can be found here.
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- “Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.”
- “The West's role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.”
- “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term "rules-based international order." It is in the Left's interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to "dismantle western propaganda" and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
In addition, several comments from a Hexbear admin, demonstrate that instance rules will not be respected.
Here are some examples:
“I can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.”
“All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.”
- https://lemmy.world/comment/121850
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1487168
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1476084
- https://lemmy.world/comment/171595
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3648500
Overall community comments:
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526128
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526086
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3652828
To clarify, for those who have inquired about why Hexbear versus Lemmygrad, it should be noted that we are currently exploring the possibility of defederating from Lemmygrad as well based on similar comments Hexbear has made.
- https://lemmygrad.ml/post/158656
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/882559
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/540170
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/446529
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected.
We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons. While we understand that not everyone may agree with our decision, we believe it is important to prioritize the best interests of our community.
So communists are not welcome on lemmy.world or what? What even is a Hexbear? How different is this move from when Elon decided to reinstate every banned account apart from Alex Jones'? How thin is the skin of lemmy.world mods? What's the point of censorship on this platform? I can go to Reddit and Twitter if I want protection from communist ideologies??
It's classic false equivalence from "freedom lovin" liberals, lol
Free speech for everyone! ^(as long as you keep quiet about anything that questions capitalism / the status quo)^
Yay reform! Aren't we just sooo progressive? Conservatives hate us so that means we're totally leftist!
What's funny (funny sad not funny haha) is how much liberals need the conservatives.
Yes, we're capitalist pigs, but at least we're not fascist capitalist pigs so vote for us!
No, nutjobs that deny reality and justify war crimes and terrorism are not welcome here.
Says who? Do you think you own lemmy.world?
The admins of lemmy.world, see the main post you're commenting in.
And am expressing my disagreement with it.
Ok
Are you really arguing that dot world should welcome speech that 'justif[ies] war crimes and terrorism'?
At least it's clear who is opposing federation with Hexbear and why.
They already do dude. Or have you not seen all the posts calling for Russians to be murdered in their homes for the crime of being unable to prevent their authoritarian government from going to war?
I don't think this is about communists not being welcome on lemmy.world. I think this is about violence not being condoned on lemmy.world. Censorship is one thing, keeping a safe environment for others is quite another. Certain situations, if predictable, are best stopped before they become a reality.
What violence? Is open discussion of anti-capitalist ideas violent to you?
Violence is only okay when it's sanctioned by the state and primarily affects working class people while benefiting the corporate oligarchs.
Speaking out against state sanctioned violence apparently makes you a tankie.
Exactly. What if I, as a landlord, want to post about the tenants I am evicting because they can’t pay their rent. Just imagining the violent howling of the lower class hexbear mob makes my stomach sick. I support free speech but not when that speech is used against me.
I hope this was satire...
"Lower class hexbear mob"? Seriously?? Or is it a satire?
If not, you are using your free speech against others here, showing how superior you think you are. Why couldn't they also express their voice?
I hope it was satire.
It was definitely satire
Haha damn I really need to work on it, I am already bad in real life at noticing satire, it is even worse online 😅
dw, happens to me too!
Don't feel bad, it's almost copypasta tier
In many countries, eviction is more complicated than just a few missed rents. Putting families on the street and then complain about homeless issues...
You can just stick to video game communities if you can't handle people having different views than yours.
Nah. It's a (biased) personal interpretation of what "good" "safe" "family-friendly" content means for lemmy users. Idk much about Hexbear's content but isn't it possible to label their posts as NSFW incase of visibly violent content or something similar.
The users who disagree with Hexbear's overall comments know where the block button is. It's not that complicated a solution. People should use more of it instead of looking for reasons to get mad.
They don't allow that kind of content, I don't think. It may even be an instant ban for posting animal products without a NSFW tag because of the suffering caused to animals by e.g. the meat and dairy industries. It isn't an instance that glorifies any kind of violence. The majority of the chat is about liberation.
There was even a time (I've been looking through some old posts to see what they're about after all this uproar) when there was a site-wide rule to read a book about trans liberation because transphobia and other bigotry are absolutely prohibited – intentional or accidentally. Even ironic bigotry is not allowed, for still being bigotry.
honestly the majority is probably news of the day and personal chit chat in the megathreads. But after that you've got a lot of posts about liberation too
I stand corrected. I've only browse a few communities so that was my impression, but what you say makes sense.
It's not about them being communist it's about that instance being setup specifically to spread propaganda.
If you love Pepsi you're welcome on here and you're welcome to talk about your love for it, but if Pepsico sets up an instance purely to spread the good word about Pepsi they should not be federated with.
"Instance specifically set up to spread propaganda"?
You're just talking out of your ass. Hexbear has been active for years. It was set up as a lifeboat for /r/chapotraphouse.
Correct
Hexbear is one of the oldest Lemmy instances after Lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml. It was created back when Lemmy didn't even have federation, so it makes zero sense to say it was set up to spread propaganda; there was nowhere for it to spread.
What about Meta? Will they be federated with? If so, or if there is discussion before an announcement of defederation with Threads, then this argument doesn't stand. I'm not saying you're being inconsistent, but that it's inconsistent with the rationale for the general decision to defederate from Hexbear.