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The fake libertarian starterpack
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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Generally I lean libertarian in terms of pure individual choice. Worship no gods or a million, be single or marry 20 people at once, put whatever substance you want in your own body, kneel for the flag or shed a tear, yes I will use your pronouns.
Every man a king, that's my philosophy.
The rest of the stuff yeah. I want food stamp programs, I want a secular neutral state, I want antidiscrimination laws, I dont support a company dumping pollution on us.
You just described being a leftist. Why are libertarians so afraid of being put on the progressive left? You are not a libertarian lmao
For the sake of clarity in this conversation, would you mind defining "leftist"? It is rather ambiguous.
I was pretty clear in what I believe LMAO
yes, and it's not libertarianism.
food stamps, anti-discrimination laws and anti-pollution laws are all a big fucking no-no for libertarians.
Food stamps are not mutually exclusive with libertarianism on the whole. Libertarianism, very generally, can be described as encompassing the idea of maximising equal individual liberty, while ensuring that one cannot impart costs on another without their consent, or proper compensation for damages. Food stamps are more of a socialist view which puts it in the category of, what is commonly referred to as, "left-libertarianism".
Correct, this would be incompatible with libertarianism -- one has the right to choose with whom they associate, and what they say.
This is incorrect. One cannot impart costs on another without their consent, or proper compensation for damages.
who is gonna enforce that? lol
This is generally referred to as "Tort Law", and it is normally handled by the civil courts.
courts? you mean a body of a government?
can't have that, also once the court has done it's thing, who's gonna enforce what the court said? because police is dirty socialism and part of the government.
Libertarianism is not opposed to the justice system -- in fact, it actually requires it -- I point you to the model referred to as a Nightwatchman State. I would also remind you that Libertarianism is not equivelant to Anarchism.
Ok it helps when you read what I wrote not what you want me to have written.
For the individual I want as much freedom as we can give them. Everything above that I want regulated and I want welfare programs.
Okay, so you are a leftist, like me. In fact, you might just be a socialist, or even a communist.
My economic beliefs are: if it works do it, if it doesn't do not. I don't trust ideology and I don't trust economists. Food Stamps work in that people don't generally starve anymore, the free market works for video games in that people generally can buymore than they would ever hope to play.
Only do things that work.
Those are very broad categories to haphazardly throw around.
For the sake of clarity, what do you specifically mean by this?
This is actually not a libertarian belief. It is of the libertarian philosophy that one cannot impose a cost on others without their consent, or proper compensation for damages.
Drugs actually worsen the quality of life for everyone. You just need to go to some streets in San Francisco to know it
No, what is bad is how people who use drugs are treated like criminals and thrown in jail. People don't suddenly decide they want to be addicted to crack or something.. But you know.. Curiosity kills the cat. These people need help, not jail time. In countries where drugs have been decriminalized, there's very little usage of hard drugs. Iirc, when users are spotted, they are offered treatment instead of a jail sentence.
Decriminalization works and it has been proven.. Yet there are still so many countries that refuse to take the step
Agreed.
Consumers get therapy, dealers get jail
When the fuck did I say "treat drug addicts like criminals"?
Then we arrest a 17 year old POC male because of a dime bag was calculated using police math to be 1 billion dollars street value and clearly dealer level.
And "therapy" turns out to be taxpayer funded rehab places where people pet fucking horses to get over their Marijuana "addiction" and atheists are forced to pray.
I went to state funded rehab outa jail... They were putting people with multiple clean years under belt on suboxone. 🙄 while pushing hard on AA, which does come across as a religious cult to me, while the principals are mostly sound, the people sent into these places to proselytize, don't have anything other than a Christian god to project into a "higher power"...instead of it being you and the people and world around you.
What's the point of mentioning the accused's race? You fucking Americans are tiring with that shit
Because the war on drugs disproportionately impacts certain races over others. I mention race because race is relevant to the issue.
But yeah thanks for stereotyping in a comment telling at me for stereotyping. I enjoy seeing my point made.
Unless you all forget the skin colour of the person next to you, your country will stay in the same shitty situation.
I don't believe that the solution is ignoring rather obvious physical differences, what I think would make a difference is the understanding that such differences are no indication of a person's character.
Yes I often tell people that we can better solve problems by pretending that they do not exist.
Instead of admitting that racism does exist and policies have to be crafted for the very imperfect world that we have now. We should go ahead with laws that assume perfect people act perfectly. Because if we assume this the power of wishful thinking will render it so.
Go on and see how nothing changes unless you all see yourselves as Americans and just that, and stop giving a shit about skin color
Hey way to address the points I made, you know instead of just waiting for your turn to rephrase your position. You have completely changed my view. I know accept that if we ignore racism it doesn't exist.
OP wasn't insinuating that you were saying drug addicts are criminals. How I interepereted what they said was that what you were describing wasn't bad in OP's opinion, and what actually was bad was that drug addicts are treated as criminals.
Dont believe you and I wouldn't care if it were true. I am not a utilitarian.
As for San Francisco, have you considered the radical idea of building more housing for greater housing needs?
So not wanting to have quite literally zombies roaming the streets is being utilitarian?
Can I have a turn beating up that strawman when you are done with him?
https://youtu.be/5gT5NULvRSk
https://youtu.be/GWBzxr3c29s
Sorry I don't click random YouTube links.
No, it's not a rickroll
I don't care if it is a Paganini Caprice played by Joshua Bell with Mother Threasa eating out Queen Elizabeth in the background. I don't click random YouTube links. If you have an argument, make an argument.
It's videos of junkies flooding the streets. it's just visual proof of my point
Not interested. You know if you bothered to ask me I could have told you that I lived in Oakland for 6 months. Also that my father was into uppers and had a criminal record because of it.
People have the right to put shit into their body. I would personally rather they did not but that is not the concern of the state. We should have optional treatments that actually work and safe injection sites.
Who says killing yourself slowly is a right? Ah yes, literally no one
Me, I said it. Also the fourth amendment.
Not a gringx
Btw, it's about not falsely imprisoning people or randomly taking goods by the state, it literally has nothing to do with doing drugs
This is a strawman argument. I don't believe that OP was arguing that drugs increased anyone's quality of life, they were instaead arguing, and rightly so, that access to drugs is a in line with the libertarian philosophy.