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this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2024
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Yep
I used to be alarmed that people were being taken in by this stuff, but I now think the overwhelming majority of people saying it are just shill accounts. For a couple of different reasons, I think the percentage that are actual human accounts that sincerely believe it is extremely small.
I notice they've pivoted to just general nihilism about the US economy and the state of things as of a few weeks ago -- I think they might have concluded, as I did, that expressing this type of viewpoint and doing such a bad job of it and getting unanimously yelled at in the comments was actually having the opposite effect, highlighting to people how important it is to vote and how it absolutely makes a difference.
I see a lot of people saying "go vote" and not making any effort to understand why non-voters stay home. A lot of the comments here are great examples of that.
That kind of dogmatism is common on political issues, of course, but that doesn't make it reasonable.
And I understand that people feel strongly. Who wouldn't? That's why it's even more important to try to discuss things. Or not. Sometimes flame wars are entertaining, if not productive. Depends on one's mood.
This is something that I've noticed is worse on Lemmy than it was on Reddit, and it was already pretty bad on Reddit. Insulting people doesn't get them to support your viewpoint. To convince disillusioned voters to hold their nose and vote blue no matter who, they have to be convinced why their individual vote has an impact in a system where the electoral college can (and regularly does) vote contrary to the popular vote. They have to be shown that it's worth participating in a system that makes progress slow and difficult but allows evil to be done quickly and with great impact.
They have to be given hope, not fear.
Thank you for your perspective. It’s nice to know that you think I couldn’t possibly be a real human being just because I’m a financially impoverished minority in these United States and sick of being told that I need to vote for someone else’s option time and again because it’s the best possible option. Every time the leftist majority makes a decision I want, they don’t look for concessions to bring me in. They just beat me over the head with fearmongering.
If you want voters, appeal to them. I’m not responsible for the message put out by the party not convincing me.
What do you suppose trump will do to help you?
Different user, but it's obvious to anyone who's been paying attention that he will just give more tax breaks to the rich and corporations. The wealth divide will grow even further.
And Trump will further destroy protections that Americans rely on.
Most pollution sources in the U.S. are placed in close proximity to residential areas in which POC & impoverished people reside. Trump crippled the EPA and as a result air quality for said people dropped like a rock that was already at the bottom of the ocean.
This isn't fear mongering, this is the shit we witnessed the first time around. The second time will be just as bad at a minimum.
He'll also set forth many of the components of Project2025 which, if you haven't read, is scary to say the least.
I have, and it is terrifying.
Even if Trump doesn't get elected, eventually another republican will. And with goals of theirs looking like that, I don't know if this country will be safe in the foreseeable future.
Hopefully by Zoomers (currently aged 12 – 27) pushing back hard on it when they actually vote in large numbers. Because, you know, young people don't vote.
Thus all the social media PsyOps. Like it or not, TikTok is critical to the future of our country.
For better or worse I'm hoping things like Taylor Swift getting involved helps the situation.
Your heros will fail you. Don't put your faith in taylor. Put your faith in the scum bags who piss in alleyways and wait for their next opportunity to punch a NAZI if the face.
Don't get me wrong, I am not putting any faith in Taylor Swift. I'm not a fan, and she is ultimately a piece of shit for a myriad of reasons.
I'm more or less trying to express the same sort of "I wish I won the lottery" kind of energy, but the political equivalent.
I decidedly don't like it.
Zoomers aren’t even 30 yet and the oldest of Alphas (incl. my daughter) are just preteens. That said, you’re right, they are in grave danger of having the wool pulled over their eyes by viral disinformation campaigns; however, they have massive potential to use all that for benevolent purposes. We also have some time and opportunity yet to teach them the importance of civic duty and the critical thinking they will need to combat the gauntlet of scams they’ll be running through in the years to come.
Right. I was off by a generation. Edited to fix, thanks for that.
Not a problem. I blame it on the media referring to everyone they see as “them damn kids” as millennials
I’m not sure you replied to the right person.
I did. you're claiming voting is pointless, but all abstaining can lead to is trump
I never said Trump would help me. So your question is irrelevant.
Your actions will help elect him. 2+2=4 whether you're acknowledging it or not
Sounds like you’re exactly what I’ve been going on about this whole time. If you have nothing productive to say we’re done here.
Not voting is bad. Take a civics class or something
I’ve taken two. Try exploring exercises in reading comprehension.
"I'm literally dying of thirst. I can only pick from two glasses of water. One is poison and will definitely kill me. The other tastes bad and may give me the runs, but I'll survive."
"I have it! I'll drink neither and wait as others pour the poison water down my throat for me!"
If you get the runs when dying of thirst it will kill you as sure as poison, you nit.
You’ve literally made my point for me.
Way to miss the point by nitpicking the nuances of the analogy that didn't matter.
The analogy is perfect. You just don’t realize it.
Curious about this, maybe you can help me:
What's your theory for why the voting ratio of this post is 20:1 in favor of "voting makes sense in this election", and the ratio of the comments is like 1:1? Or do you just not think that's odd?
I have my theory, but I'm curious what yours is.
Why does it matter to me? I’ve made it clear that popular opinion no longer influences me because I sacrifice every voting round to elect the Neoliberal option that keeps the devil at bay. I’m not asking even for my candidate to win, but for concessions that matter to the lowest earners in America.
Withholding votes has long been a clear declaration that those looking to build a bloc need to do more than point at the other team and say: “You’re electing that.”
It’s not enough any more. I can’t keep voting your way because you need me to so absolutely desperately that you’re willing to do everything except give me what I’m asking for.
Why do you keep thinking that you can just bully me into voting your way?
You could join an organization of people trying to fix the system for you and people like you. You'd probably find quite a lot of common cause with the people there, if the Democratic establishment is too worker-hostile for you even in its Bidenized form (which I could understand).
Thank you for the resource. I’ll look into it!
Yah dude. The disillusionment with the current US governmental and economic system, I get that. It makes sense to me.
Is the economy okay when everyone knows their costs are close to double what they were five years ago? Like that you lost a vote (however small the margin) literally shows your view is unpopular. But please keep hoping you know and want better for people without doing the work and ignoring the will of people.
Did you miss the primaries? There's more than just the president, you know.
What an unhelpful comment.
“I’m in this Class Project. The whole class is in on it and every time we do a class project half the class tells me that I have to agree with them or else the other half decides how to do the project. I try telling them I will agree with them if they’re open to concessions to me. They just yell harder and threaten that it will be all my fault if I don’t agree with them.”
“Have you tried participating in Group Projects?”
Your waiting for concessions reminds me of Martin Niemoller's "First they came for". You're waiting for specific focus on your needs, but in the meantime by abstaining from the process you are enabling others suffering.
You sound politically self-centered. It's fair to feel that way. But perhaps you should participate so that you can sway the process towards a side that is attempting the opposite of harm.
You could work to better the world you live in with the tools at your disposal (voting, for the lesser of two evils). If you don't, then you only have yourself to blame when no one helps you.
Did it my entire political existence. I’m the one that wasn’t helped. This is your party having no one to blame but themselves for how this is turning out at this point.
So your life would be better if every time you voted the other politician won? That seems crazy.
Where, when, and how have I ever argued for this? Can you even state my position in a single sentence?