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this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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I respectfully disagree. Murder is not at the same level as rape. Rape is awful and despicable, but at least you're alive to recover from it.
That's the thing, many people never recover from rape.
I think more people don't recover from death compared to rape
I'm not arguing that lol. But many people would literally rather be killed than raped and it's frequently cited as one of the things, "worse than death".
It should absolutely be punished similarly.
That sounds like a great way to make all rapists murderers.
No. There's a psychological barrier to killing, even in the mind of a criminal. That's why most murders are actually people who knew each other and had enough emotion to overcome that barrier or people who were scared/abused enough that the barrier was no longer there. (It goes away as a defense mechanism)
That sounds like a blatant threat and attempt at emotional blackmail
Many is not anywhere near all.
That is an option for the victim in a rape still, there is no option for the victim in a murder.
But it is possible to recover, and many do. There is no recovery from being murdered. Personally, I'm glad I'm still alive even if I'm still dealing with my own SA-induced trauma 20 years later.
Murder also has further externalities. When you kill someone, you take them away from their friends and families, who now have to live forever without that person in their lives.
But this whole conversation feels a lot like we're asking "who was worse, Hitler or Genghis Khan?", and it's weird to put either side on the defensive even if there is an objectively true answer to be found.
Yes, but statistically speaking the amount of people who recover from murder (being around 0 to 1, depending on if the Resurrection of Christ is a factual event or mere myth) is a tad lower than people who recover from rape induced trauma...
There is no reason why rape is judged much less severely than torture though.
I think this attitude where some traumatic event ruins people for life is toxic. Trauma is part of life. People can move on and have fulfilling lives.
"Trauma is part of life"? Murder and dieing is also part of life. Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. Trauma in a clinical sense is certainly not "part of life".
They're rape apologists. Everything they've been doing is part of a framework of Motte and Baileys they have constructed to justify and defend rape, and rapists.
Notice they're talking about the nature of trauma in life when this is actually a thread about OP dealing with a known sexual predator at work? How they have been talking about redemption, punishment, and the death penalty when NONE of those things are even tangentially related to OP? That is purposeful and intentional.
They derail threads like this, where there are clear-cut cases to hold someone accountable, because they oppose accountability on a moral level.
They do it because they're rape apologists.
I can't send a corpse to therapy for any amount of time that's long enough for them to recover from being dead, I can say differently about being traumatized..
And honestly as someone who's used therapy to recover from trauma, I find the idea that "It would unquestionably be better if you were murdered instead" to be so absurdly offensive and dismissive, as if anything of value to me and my continued existence is suddenly moot because I've become "Damaged Goods"
Seeing Murder as preferable to Rape is a highly misogynistic way of thinking that draws too much from patriarchal standards about a woman's worth.
Murder, for the victim, by definition, is not a traumatic event.
Death is always an option, revival generally isn't.
What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
You are advocating a known sexual predator be allowed in the workplace, knowing other employees are threatened by his presence.
The company isn't responsible for ensuring the rapist -- who is not supposed to be in society in the first place -- is able to put food on the table. It is the company's responsibility to protect its workers in th workplace, and that means not letting a known rapist work around women.
Honestly, those women could probably go complain to the EEOC. They certainly could win a civil suit.
What you're asking for is horrific and a blatant violation of the rights of other people. We don't live under the barbaric practices of the 20th century where anything like this can just be done to you and you have to put up with it. We live in the 21st century where we recognize the rights of victims and communities are more important.
Don't like it? Do what you're telling rape victims to do: get over it and move on.
Women aren't the only victims of rape. Clearly he shouldn't be allowed to work around anyone right? Actually he shouldn't be allowed to live near anyone who could be at risk either. Actually he shouldn't be allowed to go near anyone who could be raped. I think the Soviets already tried a prisoner only island and it didn't work too well.
I never said they did.
Like?
A lot of fears are valid, but that doesn't necessarily justify acting on them.
That was true during his prison sentence. Now as much as he disgusts us, he has served his punishment and has his rights again.
What does this have to do with me?
They can quit, they can force the employer to fire him, or they can tolerate it. Fundamentally, there is nothing he can change now to make himself more tolerable to his coworkers, and its not his employers job to punish him again.
How?
Why is this the argument? Why can't I have the option empathize with someone myself- why does it have to be a surrogate? But my mom was hospitalized 2 years ago after assault by a student who she still works with. Of course its terrifying know that could happen, but that's why safety measures are put into place at her work place.
Where did I apologize for rape? All I implied was that under the law he had served his time. He is now allowed to exist in society. If you believe in mandatory minimum of a life sentence for rape, that is a debate that can be had. But just like murderers, kidnappers, torturers, terrorists, and other horrific criminals, rapists are sometimes given a chance at freedom again. But you should separate wanting to protect people, and wanting revenge. Wanting revenge is a motive for criminal justice, but don't try to hide it with an argument about protection and rights.
Yes you did, and your fellow cultists have been doing that the entire day. It's the logical inference from your stances, which you have been desperately trying to bait and switch us to accept with lame Motte and Baileys, strawmen, and complete exaggerations and distortions of your enemies -- we're you're enemies to you, and trust me, the feeling is mutual -- and you're not getting one over on us. You're not going to weasel your way out of arguing that employers are somehow obligated to put food on the tables of rapists.
Honestly you should know better than to presume employers are obligated of anything toward anyone. They don't even really have any obligation to fire him, and if you genuinely were trying to be logically consistent and not some gross-ass rape apologist, you would have used that reasoning from the get-go. But you didn't, because protecting rapists is important to you. Because you're vile.
Like not my problem. Oh, I'm sorry, I guess that was just a dismissal instead of you doing a simple Indeed.com search for remote work. Silly me. I forgot we're morally obligated to cater to the needs of rapists simply because you're angry that evil people face lifelong consequences for their actions and that is somehow unfair to you (because you fear that happening to you or your friends. Implying you're going to do something nasty to somebody)
Well, we're not talking about a lot of fears, we're talking about the serious and credible threat of the presence of a rapist. And OP is justified in talking to his coworkers and bosses about this whether you like it or not. Get over it, like you tell rape victims to do when you're not brainwashing them.
You tell us, you've made the whole thread and OP's serious problems he came for advice on all about you. All Damn Day.
Yep, burden's all on everyone else and so everything must happen in favor of the rapist. The world revolves around him, and the rights of the community are secondary to his. We know that's your stance.
Also an employer firing someone like that is an act to protect their employees and, probably more importantly for them, to protect the business from liability. It's not even a punishment but you're throwing a temper tantrum trying to make it out as if it is.
Actions. Have. Consequences. Get over that fact. Get over the fact that that rapist brought it upon himself, and there's nothing you can or should do about it. What you want is not right. What you want is unconscionable and wrong.
By being a rapist, an implied rapist of women when there are women in the workplace from OP's post. And like it or not, being a rapist makes you a threat to the community, permanently. Rape is an act you can NEVER walk away from, NEVER move on from, and given the horrific nature of the act, that's how things must be for life to be right and just. Just because you don't feel that way doesn't make it not true.
Your outlook and perspective is skewed, but again, that's because you perceive yourself as a potential rapist so that's not a surprise.
Because you clearly don't empathize or care about anyone other than yourself. Especially not OP or anyone in OP's position, or his friend, or his coworkers. Or his employer, for that matter.
The entire thread. All day. Your stance is by its nature rape apologia, and you know this but you just don't care because you don't care about anyone other than yourself and your own feelings.
Hell, if your loved ones were in a situation like that, you would say the exact same thing you are now, and that's what makes you a rape apologist. It doesn't matter to you. You don't even respect me enough to be honest about it.
You can front about it all day, but you are a rape apologist. And until you change your stance and throw away your shitty opinions on the matter, you'll continue to be one. And one day, when something like this happens to someone you love, you really WILL tell them what you're telling us here, and you will destroy that person. If they are a victim, you'll either successfully brainwash them, and they will go on to destroy others, or you'll cause them PTSD and drive them to drug addiction and suicide, statistically.
Take heart in that no employer will ever fire you for that, for what it's worth.