3310
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by muddybulldog@mylemmy.win to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world

Edit: obligatory explanation (thanks mods for squaring me away)...

What you see via the UI isn't "all that exists". Unlike Reddit, where everything is a black box, there are a lot more eyeballs who can see "under the hood". Any instance admin, proper or rogue, gets a ton of information that users won't normally see. The attached example demonstrates that while users will only see upvote/downvote tallies, admins can see who actually performed those actions.

Edit: To clarify, not just YOUR instance admin gets this info. This is ANY instance admin across the Fediverse.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 137 points 1 year ago

Well, yeah, it's put on the database.

It's the only way to avoid double voting from the same account or to remove the reverse vote if one changes one's mind and votes the other way.

Did you think that it was any different on Reddit and that no random employee with access to their database could run a similar SQL query with a couple of joins and end up with nicknames, e-mails and IP addresses?!

Do you know who are the Reddit employees with access to their database or a copy of it? Have you had a chance to vet them? I don't think so.

At least here it's a bit more transparent.

The only shocking thing in this is that anybody is shocked by it.

[-] haventbeenlistening@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

It is only shocking if the expectation was set that your votes are private. If you wanted to avoid linking an identifiable account with their votes then you could use a de-identified user account to track a user's votes.

You could to perform deterministic hashing prior to persisting a vote to ensure that those looking at the database can't go backwards to find the specific users who voted on a post. But any service that knows the salt and hashing algorithm can start with a user account and determine that user's voting history.

This allows you to track up/down votes per user without allowing over-priviledged DBAs or malicious actors from poking around voting histories of identifiable users.

[-] MindCap@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Something like Monero's Ring Signatures might provide some inspiration for truly private upvote history without duplication.

[-] haventbeenlistening@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Right. Applying any form of application-level encryption to the account IDs stored in the voting tables would prevent anyone without the secret from being able to find out who voted for what by peeking at the voting tables.

The more I think about this problem, the more solvable it seems to be.

[-] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Another way to be more private is to only federate upvote/downvote count, instead of the detail of the upvote/downvote. This is not only lighter but more private. When the count needs to be updated just broadcast the new upvote count.

But I see why they want to do it the current way, as it is more aligned with activitypub protocol, and allow other platform like mastodon to participate without problems.

I cannot think of much problem in implementing a "hidden upvote system" in activitypub. Basically, it will work like this:

  • user on instance A upvotes a post in instance B: instance A tells instance B the user upvoted the post, but not anyone else.
  • instance C trying to fetch a post from instance B: B will only communicate the upvote/downvote count, but not the detail
    • if instance C is not a threadiverse instance (like mastodon) it will show "xx number of upvote from B is hidden."
[-] nova@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Wouldn't it be easy to lie though? Instance B could report 1000 upvotes to Instance C and Instance C would have no way of verifying that. An instance could boost its own numbers pretty easily, pushing agendas to the front page.

The transparency allows for accountability. It would be pretty easy to detect an instance making up user upvotes versus a "just trust this number" system.

[-] gun@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

It would be equally as easy to lie either way. Instead of reporting 1000 anonymous upvotes, report 1000 fake upvotes from fake users or users who didn't actually upvote. Any instance that gets caught abusing the protocol would get blocked pretty quickly though. Even though it's theoretically possible, I've never seen it happen.

[-] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

A instance can always generate bunch of fake user and use them to upvote their own stuff. With LLM I would imagine it would be trivial to make them sounds semi-human.

Unless fediverse implements some sort of smart contract system using proof of work/stake system, i don't really see much way to fix faking upvote. Even so, it is hard to make the implementation correct, and probably abusable (for example, most user only use a phone with 128G of storage, people can just buy couple 4TB drive and pretend each of them are 40 real users).

[-] ELI70@lemmy.run 1 points 1 year ago

Remove voting! End this dumb mob mentality!

this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
3310 points (96.0% liked)

You Should Know

32162 readers
27 users here now

YSK - for all the things that can make your life easier!

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with YSK.

All posts must begin with YSK. If you're a Mastodon user, then include YSK after @youshouldknow. This is a community to share tips and tricks that will help you improve your life.



Rule 2- Your post body text must include the reason "Why" YSK:

**In your post's text body, you must include the reason "Why" YSK: It’s helpful for readability, and informs readers about the importance of the content. **



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-YSK posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-YSK posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

If you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- The majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Partnered Communities:

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

Credits

Our icon(masterpiece) was made by @clen15!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS