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Mother, daughter killed by Israel army in Gaza church grounds: patriarchate
(www.france24.com)
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this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2023
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I know Hamas is a thing and I don't support it, but it really saddens me to see Israelis do things that were done to them just 80 years ago. There's enough space for all of us on this planet.
See that's the thing, Israelis by and large aren't the Jews that survived the Holocaust, most of those folks stayed in Europe or immigrated to the US and Canada.
Ashkenazi Jews in Israel who trace back to an arrival from that period are mostly the folks that handed the Nazis a fat stack to transfer their monetary assets to the banking infrastructure already established by the Zionists in Israel.
Of the Holocaust Survivor families that ended up in Israel, a third live in abject poverty, because again, these were the folks that couldn't just pay off the Nazis to let them go somewhere else, all of them face language discrimination because Israel banned the official use of historical Jewish languages like Ladino, Yiddish, and Mizrahi, and all of them risk getting slurred at by the non-holocaust-survivor families, specifically calling them Soap which is just one of the most blatantly heinous things I've discovered about how one community gets treated by another.
There's also the Russian Jews who ignore comparisons to the Holocaust and identify more with it being a rightful act of irredentism akin to the war in Ukraine.
I'm not doubting you, but do you have any sources? I'd like to read more.
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2015-01-27/ty-article/.premium/israeli-holocaust-survivors-remember/0000017f-e8e3-d62c-a1ff-fcfb610c0000
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/one-third-of-israeli-holocaust-survivors-live-in-poverty-advocates-say
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-abuses-holocaust-survivors
Not an article but this one does have a direct quote on the slur, https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=84135
thanks for the links. can you replace one link with its non-AMPd version? thanks.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/one-third-of-israeli-holocaust-survivors-live-in-poverty-advocates-say
you can read why AMP is baad for the web
Imagine those poor government aid workers who want to help all the Holocaust survivors but just can't figure out who they are because they don't speak Russian! Must be awful for them!
I think the point is simply that there are language barriers that create problems. This is totally believable and is a coordinating issue in any country where there are immigrants who need social services but don't speak the primary language. Not everything has to be down to all Israelis being bad people and not actually giving a fuck.
Nobody said all Israelis are bad. I'm American so I know all about shitty countries having a lot of good people in them.
But even if they do, they still remain in poverty and are mistreated. It's a symptom of what Israel is... When you drop the rights of some people, you don't stop, you keep dropping the rights of more people.
Here's a good report on it: https://youtu.be/KMIIxCR2utQ?feature=shared
The video answers your first question. I would recommend watching it.
Have you done that? It only interviews Israelis and you can hear it from the mouths of holocaust survivors themselves.
I'm not talking about rising living costs. I'm talking about holocaust survivors picking leftover fruit from the ground after the grocery stalls close down.
That's lovely! Good on you... still baffles me that you are refusing to see the issue here.
At the beginning it says they saw 13 holocaust survivor go through rubbish fruit and vegetables to be able to eat. You can say "rising living costs" all you want. If Israel respected holocaust survivors, rising living cost should never play a role, especially given all the funding they get for just that.
The issue seems to be widespread, not just a "couple few" here and there...
I don't meant to be disrespectful but your answer sounds like that of a politician trying to wiggle out of reality. The reality is that holocaust survivors are mistreated, maybe in an Israel that doesn't care about them or anyone anymore.
I think you tried to downplay their numbers... another indication of this being a "politician's answer": make the issue look smaller than it is, make it look like a "normal"/"economic"/etc issue (that holocaust survivors beg on the street and eat bad food), blame the current person in power.
Edit: I want to say, excuse my skepticism when it comes to a country that abuses not only Palestinians but also Jewish people, like holocaust survivors or all that jazz in the Yemenite Children Affair. It's enticing to think that Bibi is behind all this, but to me, it looks more like there is something systemically wrong about Israel and Israeli society in its current format.
If I were in Israel today, I would easily be injured or killed in the street by police or the IDF or angry settlers. My apologies for not having so much faith in them.
Because I'm Palestinian. Not sure why you ask, it should be rather clear. What other ethnicity is getting butchered in the West Bank day by day??
I don't want to be stripped searched. I don't want to die by a checkpoint. I don't want to be shot in the head by Israeli police or the IDF. I don't want to visit someone in the West Bank then have the whole house demolished on my head. I do not want to die, thank you very much, in a country where I'm less than human.
I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad you "ask", even though it feels like you asking is just to deny or downplay this too. Sadly I'm not exaggerating.
Nope. Never said that, never implied it.
All I'm saying is, there are enough Israelis who would readily snipe me in the head whether you like it or not, by the blessings of the state of Israel, and if I ever get to an Israeli prison, I'll be tortured and NO ONE from the UN or any other human rights organization will be able to get me out... This is what your beautiful Israel means to me, this is what it has become for Palestinians.
And no matter how "beautiful" you may be as a person, Israel still fucking sucks, and Israelis aren't doing enough to stop the genocide from unfolding in the name of their own safety and security. I'm sorry (not) if you think that criticism of Israel is somehow a "generalization" or some kind of personal attack on you... that's quite stuck up and arrogant in my opinion, but that's human nature. Would be a good idea to overcome it now.
I can't get myself to believe that, sorry. Maybe they just aren't telling you 🤷 Thousands of reports of Palestinians killed in cold blood in East Jerusalem, or Jenin, or all the other places where Palestinians can never be free of live in dignity... thousands tortured in jail, held without charge, almost 20k now dead in Gaza, because of Israel and you still prefer to trust only your own personal experience... Shame. If I were you, I would learn to look beyond that little bubble where nothing is "that wrong" and no one is "that bad"
Your response to:
"your country (which was originally mine before Israeli forces ethnically cleansed Palestinians and butchered them) wants to obliterate me from existence because of my ethnicity, name, and origin -- I can't get a sense of safety or travel to my own homeland without getting a bullet in the head"
is this:
"but not all of us omg 😢 😢 😢 what is it that makes you think we're all so bad? you're being biased, my Palestinian friends never say any of this happens"
Well, that's quite comical.
I would wish you a nice day but I don't mean it.
Sigh... and what areas do you think I'd be allowed to hang out in Israel since I'm not a Jew and I'm Palestinian?
"You won't get killed outside the West Bank so it's okay"
This is what you sound like ^
Never stopping for a moment to think about what you're saying and how it translates to reality... Not even for a moment thinking about Palestinians who get killed outside the West Bank, in their fucking homes, or in the streets, or in Gaza.
Israel = Palestinian in cages, in checkpoints, with cameras pointed into their homes. THIS IS ISRAEL. So either change it or allow it to continue in its genocidal path. Denying it isn't doing Israel any favors, trust me.
It's because I'm convinced you're insincere.
Unbelievable that you’re being talked down to and told you don’t know what you’re talking about when you’re literally an Israeli with family that survived the holocaust. It’s so upsetting seeing people call you a Nazi for living in Israel when you have family that suffered because of them. I don’t see people on this site circlejerking about how awful Palestinians are when Hamas does something bad. So why do I constantly see people circlejerking about how awful Israelis are when their government does something bad? I’m sorry you have to deal with this trash. It’s gross.
The selective outrage is very telling. We live in an era of unreality.
It's because of their denial and downplaying of what's being said, nothing to do with who they are or where they are from...
"Those are just a minority!"
"Holocaust survivors are NOT mistreated!"
"Everyone would be outraged if someone called the 'soap'"
Well, guess what, buddy, these things are happening whether you are watching or not...
If anything, it makes me sad that people so close and involved with holocaust survivors and the genocidal state of Israel wouldn't have a better, clearer view on all of this.