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this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
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About the Hamas part: AFAIK October 7th was mainly a military attack against legitimate military targets with military goals, with the (very much undeniable, don't get me wrong) atrocities committed being individual action that hasn't been proven to come from the top, If I'm not wrong about that understanding I don't see how Hamas and Israel can be put in the same position here.
They still killed a bunch of innocents. You can not deny that, if Hamas actually had a problem with it, then they should surrender everyone who killed innocents.
Do that, and maybe we can talk.
10/7 was a terrorist attack against civilians, the blow back has disproportionately affected innocent Palestinians.
Don’t defend terrorists.
If a legitimate army had soldiers that did that they would make a VERY public display of what happens to people who attack innocent people at a music festival and release videos of them going house to house in a settlement.
I have seen the pictures and videos from both sides and they are both indefensible.
I'm waiting for the IOF to make a very public display of the apache gunners who shot indiscriminately at the festival, or the tank commanders firing indiscriminately at homes in the kibbutzim. Your argument falls flat when the Israeli army not only is killing thousands of civilians in Gaza (and are proud of it btw), but also their own citizens on Oct 7.
Got any sources on any of this?
Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000
The Electronic Intifada: https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861
Mondoweiss: https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/
The Grayzone: https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-11-18/ty-article/0000018b-e1a5-d168-a3ef-f5ff4d070000
https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=m9Ja8zHUjlw
I don’t doubt that, I clearly stated fuck them both.
I have seen the videos from Hamas going building to building and shooting out tires and trying to scare people out with them.
Everyone has seen the Israeli videos, even their best ones don’t make them look good