THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
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Don't know about LA County, but a lot of jail/prison facilities contract their medical services to private third parties. These companies are the SYSCO of the medical world. While I was working in corrections the facility had two of these companies. The first one was canned when they found out the person who was promoted to the head of the department was a speech therapist and had no medical training, leading to a litany of lawsuits. The second one that came in didn't properly prepare for the situation and, after taking control, the jail went without psych meds for 90 days. That was a shit show.
When I was at the end of being employed there they were in court trying to break their contract and get someone else. You would think with a fuck-up that monumental, and a continuous influx of issues afterward, it would be a slam dunk case. However they had been in court for almost 2 years, the whole time this shit company was allowed to keep operating. I heard the county eventually paid out the rest of their contract in an agreement to terminate it.
Sounds like a shit-storm indeed, as outsourcing almost always is. And nowhere in the calculations is any concern about the people jailed, people who have no health care except what's provided. It's not a worry because the people we're paying to run prisons and jails all hate the inmates, and face no consequences when they're sick or dead.
Honestly I believe that the general public hates inmates more than the people who are in charge of these facilities. A lot of the reasons corrections is run the way it is run is due to a public demand fore swift, harsh, punishment. Preferably something they can see on the news and get a vicarious hit of vengeance based dopamine from. There are a lot of issues that arise from the continuous addition of profit motives for having prisoners. However, in my position, I dealt with a lot of the data, and statistics, of the system. My department regularly took part in cooperative research, data collection, meta studies, etc. with other branches of the justice industry. I have spent a lot of time in rooms, with the facility management, politicians, judges, etc. that collectively control how things are run. One of the most common things I have heard from politicians is that everyone knows reform needs to happen, and the path to go, but they can't get re-elected running on that, if you aren't rabidly tough on crime, you automatically greatly narrow your voters.
So true. There's no easier way to win an election in most of the USA than by appealing to our basest cro-magnon instincts. All of America's gravest problems are intertwined around that ugly fact.
A question, since you've been in those rooms for those discussions: Is there anyone else in the room who, in your opinion, honestly gives a damn about justice in the justice industry?
Yes, there are many people who genuinely want to help. The heads of our drug and alcohol counseling, the head of Recidivism reduction/re-entry was very passionate, all the academics and people like me working to provide this data were, at least, supportive of major reform. I got to meet John Fetterman, and while I can only say I know him in a professional sense, he is the real deal when it comes to wanting to actually implement progressive reforms. The issue is that there are a lot of congressional, and executive level, politicians who are simply owned by big industries.
There, for a long time, was the implementation of a school of thought from the Chicago School of Economics that pushed and idea called economic justice. This, in it's self is actually a worthwhile idea, and in many ways is needed to really improve lives. Basically if you structure things to economically target groups on the down side of disparity you will relieve a lot of the issues with social justice.
However, that school was like a think tank for right wing Libertarians. They used this idea as a vehicle to implements justice in a manner like a market. Determine demand, create supply, etc. It was heavily pushed by a man named Richard Posner, a judge, Juris Doctorate. He was very influential in pushing this concept. However, almost 50 years later, all he saw was skyrocketing prison populations even though a lot of crime was actually going way down. That among other things kinda made him pull back and he started working more with providing assistance to people in a more direct, social safety net fashion. Then he died not too long ago. Well this concept is, slowly, declining in use. It was not universally popular. Posner was almost definitely denied a position the USSC due to their hesitance to bring someone with his ideas on board. This is a major reason we privatized so many services within the prison system. Privatizing aspects of the prison system is a mixed bag, in terms of cost to benefit, operation violations, etc. However, fully private prisons have not gotten very popular because they are plagued with human rights issues. More so than government run ones.
Anyway, to stop rambling, look into that, a lot of how things work will make sense once you know the whos and whys of the current systemic structure. It has caused more problems than it solved, and it is slowly being walked back. There are people who want to push forward with the concept, or some variation of it but, for now things are very slowly moving towards reform. Drug courts, re-entry programs, more and more education, particularly VoTech, taking non violent drug addicts and putting them into longer term rehab, etc. It has a lot of problems, but it is slowly changing.
Though I do worry that, from what I read int he 2025 Project proposed by the gop's most influential organizations, that we may be in for a big shit storm if the GOP is able to position themselves to implement their idea.
https://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
This link is to the 2025 Project manifesto. It is almost 1000 pages but, it is essentially a manual for the the GOP to take control of the the vast majority of the government and consildate most of the executive power to the president, while using some archaic laws to bypass posse comitatus and bring troops in to basically stop protests, etc.
It's not rambling if it's smart and interesting, and it is, so thanks. I suspect you have a book in you on the subject, and I'd read it.
More later, when I have more wits about me.
this is why we actually need competent people in government
It's why we need competent people in the public to vote for competent people in government. Can't really complain that prison conditions are inhumane when a large number of Americans want them to be inhumane and would vote against prison reforms.
Agreed. As I stated above, a lot of the issue is that the voting public wants harsh punishment for stepping out of line. I have listened to a number of politicians discuss how everyone knows this shit isn't working, and change is needed. We even know the general direction to take things in. However they can't get elected running on something that isn't being staunchly "tough on crime".