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this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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I posted this article even though I nominally support what Israel is doing here. This war has a legitimate human cost and there's no reason to belive that reasonable people will never view that cost as too high.
I think the story painted here shows both the horrid cost on civilian life that these bombings have and the extensive efforts to avoid civilian casualties that the IDF takes.
Short of an Jeff Bezos takeover of Gaza to turn it into the world's biggest Amazon warehouse, I literally don't know what could possibly solve the situation. It's clear from the cheering crowds praising raped corpses that there's too much hatred to reasonably integrate Gaza into greater Israel. And it's clear from the massive terror the Muslim Brotherhood caused in Egypt, that they could never integrate into an Egyptian society . And is clear from the 4-6x Marshall Plan per person they've received in aid that aid to Gaza is a black hole that will never lead to a thriving society. After 2004 I remember this optimism and a belief that this Israel/Palestine thing was really back on pace for a 2 state solution. And now I just don't see it.
Some solution has to be found. If Israel just empties Palestine of Palestinians and claims it all as Israel, that won't give them the safety they want from attacks by nutters. The crazy thing that is, there are right wing nutters in Israel wanting to exactly that. Ethnic cleansing is no way to peace. Even the US won't support them doing that. Even doing it salami slicing with nutty settlers isn't going unnoticed.
There needs to be a justice system to deal with nutters. You can't deal with harsh collective punishment. It's a nutters response that just creates more nutters on the other side. Which nutters of the side partly want to justify their own nuttiness and to create more of them on their own side.
I don't think that goal this time is to evict Palestinians from Gaza. I think the goal is simply to try to get a "new deal." Most terrorist organizations aren't as evil, incompetent and aren't as ridiculous as Hamas is. I mean imagine how much better Gaza would be with a Taliban-esque leadership group in charge. Or even just a leadership group physically located in Gaza.
Like how many jihadists can really be left in Gaza? At some point, they've got to run out of these idiots.
There are some who are calling for it to be the end of Palestinians. Nuking them and other means of clearing the land.
You never run out of idiots. They will be coming to Palestinian to fight. Young men are prone to look for causes to fight for and there is a real injustice happening to Palestine.
Israel can't just kill it's way to peace. No justice, no peace.
Hamas aren't helping the Palestinian cause either because they are clearly terrorist nutters.
Oh I'm sure there are some people at that point on the Israeli political spectrum. I just don't think the ruling coalition is there.
It doesn't take much sanity to see nuking would be a terrible idea.
It doesn't take much sanity to see that attacking your much larger and stronger neighbor and indiscriminately murdering their elderly and children and parading raped corpses through your streets would be a terrible idea. But we have idiots on both sides.
They are religious nutters, they don't care about their own death, or the deaths of thousands of Palestinians. If anything, they want Israel to attack Palestine and kill thousands, and create rage that creates more Hamas. Hamas isn't only fed by Palestinians. It can't be defeated by military might. That's like "the beatings will continue until morale improves".
I mean if Hamas was replaced by a Hezbollah equivalent that would be in improvement.
More likely the anger being created will feed ever more extremism. Beating a people into peaceful submission doesn't work. Let alone is barbaric.
It's not about beating Gaza into submission. It's about destroying the logistical facilities necessary to executing slave raids. There's not need for Gazan to "submit" to Israel. They just need to stop attacking Israel.
Those same facilities are used by civilians. It really seams about giving Palestinians the choices of submit, leave or die. This is not the road to peace.
Ya unfortunately Hamas commits warcrimes by co-locating military infrastructure with civilian infrastructure.
Yes I'm sure they do. However the answer isn't to respond with more war crimes. It just keeps escalating and innocent people keep dying. It also feeds the nutters on both sides, swelling their numbers and influence.
Hitting a colocated facility isn't a war crime.
Other than as part of collective punishment, I don't think colocated facility is especially contentious.
Edit: I read chocolate and cut and passed it because I thought chocolated was amusing. Tired dyslexic brain text processing. Co-located does remove some of the protections.
So your definition of "war crime" is unique and different from the Geneva Conventions definition of war crimes.
So when you say :
What yiu need to realize is that people arent responding to war crimes with more war crimes. Theyre responding with force which is much less violent than what the Geneva Conventions would allow them to respond with.
I had read chocolated and was amused. Yes, colated does remove some of the protection. But Israel has to prove that. There will be problems if there is no evidence and/or internal doubts from intelligence appear.
For the most part they have shown and told this war. More than they have historically. And in the case of Al Shifa, that being a dual use hospital has been well known and documented for years in the press.
This is revenge. It will just create a whole new generation of Hamas. It won't help peace. The previous peace wasn't really peace but dominance. For real peace, to stop the murder of both sides, there needs to be a peace process. The nutters of sides need to be sidelined and even face a just justice system.