84
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
84 points (95.7% liked)
Games
16759 readers
1100 users here now
Video game news oriented community. No NanoUFO is not a bot :)
Posts.
- News oriented content (general reviews, previews or retrospectives allowed).
- Broad discussion posts (preferably not only about a specific game).
- No humor/memes etc..
- No affiliate links
- No advertising.
- No clickbait, editorialized, sensational titles. State the game in question in the title. No all caps.
- No self promotion.
- No duplicate posts, newer post will be deleted unless there is more discussion in one of the posts.
- No politics.
Comments.
- No personal attacks.
- Obey instance rules.
- No low effort comments(one or two words, emoji etc..)
- Please use spoiler tags for spoilers.
My goal is just to have a community where people can go and see what new game news is out for the day and comment on it.
Other communities:
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I agree, Mass Effect / The Witcher is vastly more immersive than silent protagonist alternatives like Fallout 3, Skyrim or The Outer Worlds. That said though, Skyrim and The Outer Worlds could never work with a voice protagonist, Skyrim because the variation is just far to intense to make any logistical sense (as in so many race+gender combos). And The Outer Worlds dialog trees and complexity there would be crazy expensive to voice out fully. Though both are budget bound so with AI assistance it might be possible without super intense spending.
The Witcher works because Geralt is a character, same with Shephard. Joe Generic in Fallout 4 is so boring because they are trying to still have the make your own character aspect intact.
Thats the key here, Sheperd, Geralt, and Henry of Skalitz are all characters in their own right. Ya just get to choose what they do.
What then about Cyberpunk? It's not like you can't do customization of background and looks when you voice the protagonist
Its less that ya cant and its moreso that its expensive. Also I said nothing about the inability to do something, also V is similarly to the others I listed their own character.
And I addressed the expensive part. I'll even argue that every playable character, even silent ones, are their own character. No game, besides Fallout 3, starts from birth and lets you be whomever as you go. But even in Fallout 3 you've still got many things pre-defined, parents, general backstory etc. Same with Skyrim, you're the dragonborn no matter what you do. It's really just a budget thing. To the point of the article though I think it adds to immersion to have a voiced protagonist. But others are of a diametrical opinion.
I was coming at this from a blank slate approach, think New Vegas, Morrowind, or Baldurs gate 3 ( assuming no premade character or Dark urge).
Sure, but none of those still lets you say whatever you want, you're still locked to a few alternatives that effectively shoehorn you into a character. In the future, with the aid of AI you could match what you personally say or type to an intent and then map that to pre-baked responses. With attacking you or running away as a response to aggression and a "haha very funny but back to the matter at hand" when you're being silly. And it's only when we're there that I'd, personally, say a "silent" protagonist is as immersive as a voiced one.
If I see a game with an AI voiced protag im avoiding it. Also I prefer my protags to be silent in RPGs, the constant yapping in fallout 4 pisses me off.
No I mean you're the voice for the protagonist, the game reacts to what you say (or type if you prefer). And we're all different in what we prefer!
That tech or atleast the typing part of it has existed for a long time. Old text adventure games used it and even some of the earliest CRPGs used it like wasteland 1, also honorable mention to fallout 1 and 2 which had a watered down version. Theres a reason ya dont see it anymore, that reason is cause its fucking infuriating. Seriously half the time I try playing those I turn into a demented murder hobo.
I swear to fuck if I see a modern game go "I dont know what 'talk' is" im gonna punch the lead dev.
Yes and no, what they did is they used keywords and synonym lists but they were extremely basic and you needed to build a mental model of how dialogue "works" that fit the developers. Hardly ideal. But with LLMs and NLP and some clever programming making NPCs that react convincingly to your typed in questions / interactions isn't far off.
Given how schizophrenic LLMs can be im gonna guess it wont get past the experimental phase. Its just too damned unstable at the best of times.
They can't handle a long conversation, that's the problem. But no RPG I've ever played has very long conversations, especially not on one topic. The flow is generally opener -> pick a topic -> follow up questions (a few different that all land you back on the same "step") -> conversation ender / go back to pick topic. Total sentences about one topic is generally no more than 10. And from the LLM standpoint it'd suffice if we kept the topic as one, joined, conversation and every distinct topic as their own instances. Thus we wouldn't have time to dig to deep before the conversation ends and functionally resets.
But that, AI generated dynamic responses, wasn't really what I meant. I more meant using player input in a dynamic fashion instead of selecting pre-baked sentences that your PC "says" without their own voice. So the flow would be that you typed or said "Hello there, can you tell me about the night the dragon attacked?" The AI would then interpret that text and match it to which Voice Actor recorded statement that best fit. So you'd get something like "Oh it was terrifying, the dragon burned down the church!" You'd get the same statement if you ask "whatever happened to that church over there?"
You'd also need recorded statements for rude remarks, aggression, that they don't know (possibly with pointers towards NPC with more information) etc.
So you're only replacing the dialog selector, not Voice Actors and you're not voicing the protagonist.
Okay I kinda see what youre saying can't say I would play a longer game with it as the main source of PC dialogue. But as a hybrid system that could be fun, like Fallout 1 and 2 having a typed question system alongside the normal dialogue. Hell you could probably add some fun shit into it for second time players IE calling the big bad evil guy out before he's reveled.
Also if you want to mess around with a similar concept theres a game called facade which does something similar its just quite old at this point. Its from 2012 or some shit. Its also very very awkward given that its basically a social simulator with a married couple who are having a rough time.