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this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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Hamas directly provoked the current outbreak in violence by murdering over 1,400 Israelis. Mostly civilians, and many of them elderly and children. They took 120 hostages.
Hamas aren't freedom fighters - they're terrorists.
But who provoked that provocation. Israel had killed 22.4x as many Palestinians than Israelis had been killed by 2020. To act like it was unprovoked is pretty dumb. You can argue about the effectiveness and morality all you want, but don't act like nothing led to it.
Who’s says it wasn’t provoked?
Intentionally murdering civilians is still terrorism. It’s wrong when Israel does it, it’s wrong when Hamas does it.
The implication from your statement is Hamas provoked the attack through an unprovoked action. It's implied that you're justifying Israel's genocide because Hamas provoked them. However, Hamas was provoked as well. Is their attack justified?
Considering he said "It's wrong when Israel does it", it doesn't sound like he is justifying Israel's genocide.
If Hamas were attacking IDF facilities, ok, that would seem to be a desperate move that could be seen as provoked. I could perhaps understand that approach.
Hamas instead striking innocent civilians cannot be condoned.
Neither can we condone Israel going scorched earth without regard for collateral damage. We should be sick to our stomachs every time an Israeli representative responds to a question about mitigating civilian casualties with "It is simply imperative that Hamas be destroyed" clearly showing they are perfectly fine with Palestinian casualties.
We can recognize that both sides are culpable for their actions. We can recognize several opportunities for peace that have cropped up, but failed to some key extremist Zionist or Palestinian keeping it from happening.
So sick and tired of folks that need to see one side or the other as unambiguously justified when ESH.
You’re reading a lot into what I said that isn’t there.
Israel isn’t justified. Hamas isn’t justified. They’re both murderous bastards and civilians, both Israeli and Palestinian, are being killed.
So what should Palestine have done, just rolled over and let them continue slaughtering them?
The real slaughter started after Hamas murdered a thousand civilians.
How can you justify killing innocents to achieve a political goal?
Oh, do palestinian lives not matter or not count? Or are you really so stupid you believe all Israeli propaganda? Because reality is that the "real slaughter" started decades ago, and has been done entirely by Israel.
I don't know how you can justify it. Ask Israel. They have killed dozens of Palestinians for every Israeli killed prior to this attack. I wonder what we're up to now...
You can’t. Israel don’t have the moral high ground here.
The slaughter of one group provides no moral justification for murdering another.
No, Israel provoked that attack by committing 30 years of war crimes on Gaza, and attempting to steal all of their land. What exactly would YOU have done in reaction to an enemy intentionally starving your people for 30 years? I know that compared to how America would have reacted, Hamas is a full on pacifist
NOT murder civilians, including children and babies?
There’s no justification for murdering innocents, no matter who does it.
i like to believe they’re still trying to type up a response that justifies killing civilians without actually saying it outright
Nope, killing Israeli civilians is justified. Ideally they kill soldiers, but any Israeli they find is good. Remember, the IDF has compulsory service. So all of them are guilty of the genocide. But a better reason is that, since the US made them overwhelmingly powerful, it would be absurd to expect Gaza to fight back along traditional lines of warfare. Whatever they are capable of doing to hurt the people genociding them is justified.
Israel will not respond to peace. If they don't kill every Israeli they can, Israel will genocide them. It is downright absurd to suggest Gaza is beholden to any traditional rules of warfare in the face of genocide.