this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
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Late Stage Capitalism

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This isn't me being a luddite. Machinery has massive potential benefit to giving humans more free time to pursue things that fulfill them and the internet is an amazing tool for disseminating knowledge and increasing communication, whether it's about art, science, or philosophy.

But I realized today, this person is just kneading different textures of dough and this person is just whittling. How many bakers and carvers loved what they did because it stimulated their senses in ways that humans have evolved to be fulfilled by?

I have another theory (that probably aligns with disability theory in some way or other) that people with autism aren't actually more common now, it's just that they're sensitive to bright artificial light and loud noises and weird smells and foreign textures the world we live in is FULL of those. And what's more, we have ever increasing attentional expectations in the midst of all that!

You used to just have a weird uncle Joe who doesn't talk a whole lot but man he can knead dough aaaalll day or thresh wheat or maybe he just makes cute little wooden toy horses all weekend and we sell them at the market on Monday. And it's weird how aunt sally hums like that but damn her lace embroidery is WILD. (we can discuss antiquated gender expectations at a different time).

This isn't saying savantism/special abilities should be expected of neurodivergent people either, just that a looot of people probably flew entirely under the radar that way for a huge portion of human history and we're only noticing them now because we're progressively putting people in more and more noxious environments where even people who could've coped in those environments can no longer cope in this one.

And now we have a whole industry of creating stimulation for people who never would have needed it if we just hadn't created an entire world without naturally occurring stimulation that they're "expected" to live in after humans spent hundreds of thousands of years learning to make tools out of wood and stone and cook over open fires, and crush and mix their own grain to make breads.

And because all these things occur on a spectrum, we're seeing more people everyday who would have had no need for the stim industry now suddenly require it because we're progressively pushing more and more people who could previously have claimed one of those coveted "normal" labels into being "different" as we steadily push them to accept less and less stimulation in their daily lives and steadily push them to stretch their attention span more and more beyond what it ever evolved to do.

TLDR; the ASMR/Stimming industry is only necessary because we created a world where those stimuli no longer occur naturally that people who need them have to live in. The concept of a "disability" is very intimately intertwined with expectations as to what environment any given person "should" be able to thrive in.

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[–] Erk@cdda.social 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

There's definitely some crackpot here though, much as it comes from a place of compassion. Ownership of the means of production isn't stopping people from whittling or kneeding dough... I love blaming everything on capitalism more than most, but there are several levels more evidence needed for this supposition

[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 years ago

Ownership of the means of production isn’t stopping people from whittling or kneeding dough…

Anecdotal yes, but people around me not having time to do that stuff is a big deterrent. If you have to work and study with all of your time and energy, you won't get much to chop veggies or bake bread and will have to order takeout or something of the sort.

Sure, some deprivation of time like that is possible under communism, but due to surplus labour you are naturally working more than one should under capitalism for that same return. Considering how most needs could be met with way less work in "developed" societies by abolishing property (fuck rent), people would be much freer to go chop soap, carve small sculptures or generally be messy with tactile and auditory senses without having to resort to a whole industry of other people doing that for you (those also doing that solely to pay their bills). ASMR and other such things are not problems of capitalism, but lacking solutions to solve capitalism's problems with capitalist tools.

Also it's important to point out that neurodiversity like Autism and ADHD aren't always considered "mental illnesses" and aren't inherently bad. Those would be more of the sort of Major Depressive Disorder which should definitely be treated as a problem.

[–] pyska@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ownership of the means of production isn't stopping people from whittling or kneeding dough

Agree, but we need to actually try it to know for sure. :)

[...] but there are several levels more evidence needed for this supposition

Multiple levels indeed. I may not be the best at this, but let's try and unroll what those levels are.

I would say it's a combination of feeling alienated from your work, as well as the commodification of your attention that leads to the stimming/ASMR industries being a thing. Not to say they are bad, but in a better world everyone would feel like they belonged and there would be no need for artificial shows of attention. On the flip side, if you already don't feel like you belong, constant advertisements reminding you you are valuable but only if you buy this thing may gently push you further down the spiral.

Another level may be a lack of community. As proof of this you can see how capitalism promotes individualism, either through "personal finance literacy" or through "personal meditation apps" which help you manage your anxiety on your own. The feeling of success being tied into one's achievements instead of the health of the community, or nature. You may think this is not relevant but remember that some people are more influenced by their environment than others. They pick up the message "do it by yourself" and just run with it, because that's what we as a capitalistic society expect of everyone.

These are problems of capitalism, imho, though I'd be happy to know what others think.

[–] Erk@cdda.social 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think there's a serious risk of attributing all mental illness, or even in this case any deviation from "typicality", to capitalism. It's made tricky by the fact that capitalism unquestionably exacerbates problems related to mental illness, so there's a strong undercurrent of fact to it... But eliminating capitalism won't end mental illness.

Further, I think it's a mistake to attribute toxic individualism to capitalism alone. Japan, for example, is deeply capitalist, and people there have their own set of mental illnesses that are rooted in being forced to abandon individualism in a rigidly collectivist capitalist society. Toxic individualism is a "western" thing, and it ties into western capitalism like the rest of the culture, but it's not a specific feature of all capitalism. It is a mistake to boil every single problem down to capitalism alone, even when capitalism is without a doubt making these problems worse. It's an oversimplification that will lead to possibly fatal issues when trying to implement an alternative.

[–] WIthoutFurtherDelay@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Capitalism doesn’t cause differences, it makes behavior that isn’t strictly in line with the norm much more dangerous to the person having it.

[–] pyska@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago

I didn't blame capitalism for every mental illness. The world will continue to have mentally ill people (whatever we mean by mentally ill) long after capitalism falls. I'm just saying capitalism makes it worse. Sometimes actively exploits them (see casinos, the lottery and micro transactions in games). And it's ok for it to be criticized for that. Because it's inherent to the system to chase capital, even if human life gets in the way. I still remember the time when Goldman Sachs asked "Is curing patients a sustainable business model?". In capitalism, no it isn't.

Japan is less individualistic than other countries, so it may have less of this kind of problem (regarding OPs post), but at the same time, more of some other kinds of problems, all related to capitalism as well. There is a reason why they have the word 過労死 (death by overwork) and we don't (we have a sentence).

Which is a shame, I love Japan's culture so much.