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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2023
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Movies and TV Shows
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General discussion about movies and TV shows.
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End of franchise films ? Not even close. What I think you’re seeing now is the floor is much lower for franchise films than before (especially with comic book movies). You need more than “it’s a Marvel movie” to have people go out and come see. The top movies of the year are still either sequels to franchises or based on existing IP.
That's true. I should have titled the end of the "risk free" franchise film. Disney and WB drop 200 million on a movie and start filming without a coherent script because they knew that the film would coast on the name alone. I think those days might be gone. Marvel and others might need to step up their game to survive.
The bar has definitely been set with Spiderverse, especially for Multiverse movies
I think this is more accurate. You still need effort. I will say Flash and IJ are probably not the best examples though. Flash wasn't bad and neither was IJ. Flash suffered due to the antics of the Ezra. It also had very inconsistent VFX. Even when sitting in a damn cockpit, they still out a layer of CGI over Ezra when they're in the suit and it looked awful. If practical effects can be done practically, they should do so. They clearly could do good VFX in the movie, but it's clear when it wasn't needed. Faces are still difficult, so they should avoid working on them when they don't need to. Rubber masks work. I can't imagine they cost more than the VFX, but based on how they treat VFX artists, who knows. Moreover, it retread a lot of ground that was already done in Flashpoint. Plus, you have the conservatives trying to cancel (and in the same breath arguing against cancelling others) anything that has a woman replacing a man, or an actor that identifies with any of the LGBTQ+ letters.
Indiana Jones on the other hand suffered because the target audience has aged out of theaters. Crystal Skull definitely didn't pick up a large contingent of fans. The style of movie is definitely aged. Current moviegoers like consistency down to the detail. Indiana Jones does not have that. None of it makes sense when you start to analyze any plot point. But it was never supposed to. The major plot points are more important. Everything else was an excuse to put Indy into ridiculous scenarios. That type of action hero movie just isn't popular with the main movie going audience.
Agreed completely. Writing and Direction are key and studios will definitely need to recognize that (ironic considering the writers are still in strike).
Out of the loop, why is there a writers' strike?
In short. studios are trying to replace writers with AI
That was part of it. They are also getting stiffed by streaming services.
https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna83508
The bar has definitely been set with Spiderverse, especially for Multiverse movies
Plus, half the reason for lack of interest in Flash is that in franchise terms, it's a "dead man walking" --the whole DCEU is getting the (re)boot after this, so there's no incentive to watch this installment when you know there'll be no payoff for anything it sets up.
Agreed. Early-mid 2010s were hollywood's golden ticket for franchises. Another hunger games? A marvel movie? Star Wars? Hobbit? Just keep churning them out and we'll go see them.
Now we (at least me and the people I talk to) are over the big franchises. For example, I love the infinity marvel movies, yes they're repetative and predictable but they were fun, and I started watching them with Iron Man. It was a ton of fun seeking out easter eggs and predicting where it'd go. But it's over, they finished it, and IMO they finished it well.
Now... well, another one comes out, super, I'll see it when I get around to it. I'm definitely not going to go to the theater and I'm not going to buy a copy, so sometime on a streaming service probably.
I do hope we see a renaissance in individual films. I've been catching up on my backlog and there are so many good ones, I hope that Hollywood sees that not everything needs to be a (4 part) trilogy.
(but then there's Dune....)
Well it turns out, if you give a shit and hire people that are passionate about the product they make, you make a good movie. And people like to watch good movies. That's why dune worked. Because it was expertly done.
I had the same reaction with Marvel. I would watch almost every single movie the week it came out. They did extremely well with their Infinity Saga and capped it with an incredible conclusion. Infinity War/Endgame is a master stroke to what could’ve been an absolute disaster. Now that it’s over, the only MCU movies I’ve watched in theaters (let alone the first week) were No Way Home, Wakanda Forever, and GOTG3. The others I watched eventually at home (if at all).
@echoplex21 After Endgame, the only Marvel movie that interested me was GotG3. Now that I've seen it I'm done.
EDIT: Removed unnecessary user tags
Marvel is mostly fatigue with some laziness. It's not that I don't actually dislike any of it. I just don't have the energy and desire to keep up all the time. A franchise shouldn't be like a product. They're trying to get more and more mindshare by putting out more and more in a shorter time. It's clear it's losing some quality in the writing (though even the "bad" ones still have redeeming qualities in my opinion, like I'm still glad I saw the Eternals, but it clearly is also flawed) due to not having the cohesiveness in story any longer. Look at the big hit video games that are trilogies. Horizon Zero Dawn and Forbidden West had like 5 years between them (though a DLC was released a year after ZD). Sure it's a different medium, but it still shows that sometimes you need to ensure you put the work in and the effort, plus leave the audience wanting for a bit. Having something new all the time just makes it less interesting to begin with.