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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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I don’t support either group here. But the reason this continues to be such a contentious issue is the decades of mistakes and extreme conflict that lead to the current state of things there. The entire area has been in cyclic conflict for hundreds of years, this is merely a continuation of that with the complexities of post ww2 short sighted and racist policies enacted by the allied powers influencing the way things have played out.
Israel is a far right authoritarian state and they are brutal in how they choose to operate. Palestine is a hotbed for terrorism and is equally brutal in the guerrilla tactics they employ.
External influence from western and Islamic countries fuels the flames. It’s a disaster and a mess.
There’s genuinely no two state solution. As long as these two groups share this place they will always fight. And there’s no resolution that doesn’t see everyone else dragged into yet another proxy war.
Personally I think this will see some of the most major developments in this conflict in decades. The repercussions of this act will be large scale and relentless. But the Israelis will quickly find themselves in a quagmire if they try to occupy Palestine in any major capacity. It won’t be over quickly. Many will die.
But I suspect that’s where we are heading.
I just don’t see what the goal was for hamas other than to spread terror and I guess push Israel to retaliate. I suppose their goal is to make them commit war crimes and shift public sentiment? Or maybe draw in Arab neighbors to assist again (it went so well last time). They had to know there would be a major reprisal and it would not be an equal fight.
I suspect this is it. There’s been a lot of back and forth but I do not believe Israel will be walked back to the table here, this was far and beyond anything that can just be forgiven. This is a 9/11 level event for this country and having seen American fury and rage after that I can only assume the same will be seen here.
Yeah i think we are no longer coming back to the table. And what’s interesting is that there’s precedent for this both ways. Obviously an occupation would be bloody and violent and in general they fail to uproot the terrorists cells, instead only further instigating them and driving people to their cause.
But at the same time you can look at what happened in Sri Lanka. They had terrorists operating in the country for decades. Same sort of deal. Only there the military operation persisted and eventually through vicious brutality they drove them into a corner and forced their retreat. While the country continues to experience turmoil and issues, the era of the militant Tamils is a shadow of what it once was.
I don’t know how it will play out but there’s going to be quite a bit more blood shed. They’ll pay for every dead Israeli with ten of their own.
There were essentially no Jews (<2%) living in the areas of Israel and Palestine before the Zionist colonization movement in the late 1800's.
You're trying to make it seem like this modern day thing is even remotely related to the past, which it isn't.
There’s a clear distinction between the sort of age of crusades and modern post ww2 geopolitics that generated the current conflict, but to suggest that there’s not been a near continuous level of conflict in the area between Jews, Muslims, and Christians is disingenuous.
This is like saying the BLM movement in America has nothing to do with slavery.
It's not disingenuous. Jewish people literally just weren't there until very recently. You're talking like 1000+ years ago.
This is the central question everyone can't agree on, right? Which group that conquered the region and eradicated their enemies has the "rights" to the land? I'm seriously ignorant on the subject, and more than happy to delete this comment if it's not really adding to anything, but we're calibrating our standards of who has the rights to a region based on what the latest Empire said, be it Ottomans or Romans or however far back we want to go, until we're talking literally Neolithic folks showing up, right? I'm not religious, so there's a critical part of this conflict I simply cannot fundamentally understand.
The difference between making claims based on occupation in the late 1800s versus late 800s seems arbitrary, to me. That said, I know that can sound patently ridiculous, since we're talking generations we can count on one hand versus the same number of Empires controlling the land: so this is where I throw my hands up and just cry a little. Solidarity to everyone suffering oppression and terrorism, in whatever forms they take.