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Anark does (in my view) a well-cited and very polite refutation of Socialism4All's response to one of his off-the-cuff videos, and a vastly more polite response to BadEmpanada than he deserves.

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[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Lol I got banned in the db0 anarchist sub over refuting this garbage. A white guy filming himself sitting in a big chair in front of a giant lawn in a giant house dares to claim that the non white revolutionaries who liberated their nations from colonialism and imperialism are actually just capitalists

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You did not meaningfully refute this "garbage". You merely screamed that it was garbage and got yourself thrown out of an anarchist space for being toxic and anti-anarchist.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Here's the thread in question beginning where Jabril starts quoting: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/73627349/27500114

Given the showing of those responding to Jabril I'm gonna say nobody that responded to them is even remotely serious about this topic. Like, at all. I don't think refutation is the right term, there would have to be some kind of contest in the first place.

That includes db0, who never actually engages in these topics except to fling dismissals and ban. So much for the anti-authoritarian left lmao.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Given the showing of those responding to Jabril I'm gonna say nobody that responded to them is even remotely serious about this topic.

db0's conduct on a separate thread is irrelevant to the content of the video. It was irrelevant when Jabril brought it up unprompted, and it's irrelevant now. If Jabril doesn't want to discuss the video then that's fine, I respect that user's time, but Jabril could have simply left it alone without bringing the drama over here.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 8 points 2 days ago

db0's conduct on a separate thread is irrelevant to the content of the video.

It is obviously relevant to Jabril getting banned and to any refuting happening in that thread.

It was irrelevant when Jabril brought it up unprompted, and it's irrelevant now.

Same user posting the same video counts as a prompt I think.

If Jabril doesn't want to discuss the video then that's fine, I respect that user's time, but Jabril could have simply left it alone without bringing the drama over here.

Jabril did discuss the video.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 16 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

not true in the slightest, but just like the other anarchists you can refuse to acknowledge the things that I said from the jump. it is the only way to meaningfully reject what I said since if you were to engage with my points you would have to acknowledge they are correct. this is why idealism is worthless, being dogmatically attached to an ideology instead of what actually helps the most people the quickest is essentially bourgeois individualism

edit: just to make it easy for everyone to see how wrong you are, here are my first three comments in chronological order:

Capitalism is an advancement from feudal, colonial and slave economies, and will continue advancing into socialism and then global communism, which is what so called "non authoritarian" leftists claim to desire but have no roadmap to get there nor any achievements of their own to claim

There have been many communist revolutions utilizing dialectical materialist analysis to manufacture an overthrow of the ruling class and build new societies.

Communists are the only ones to have modern revolutions which have successfully overthrown colonizers and ruling classes and immediately ushered in societies that materially improved the lives of the masses. Infant mortality rates down, life expectancy up, literacy rates up, access to food and medicine up, etc etc. You can deny history and statistics all day but no one else has turned an illiterate backwater where people live an average of 35 years into the most advanced societies on the planet except for communists. The only "roadmap" anarchists have is being hedonists until capitalism makes most of the earth unlivable, which will certainly bring a type of anarchism to the last survivors of the earth, but will unfortunately be the mad max kind

as you can see, your interpretation is completely wrong and reveals you have no integrity.

Edit2: and just to be clear the fucking title of the video is inflammatory and condescending to MLs and communists. so the initial premise itself is doing exactly what you are clutching pearls at. I responded to the title and the premise of the video with less vitriol than the title itself, which erases and white washes billions of people's lives, almost all of which are non white. this is white supremacy, straight up, that you are promoting with this video. it is colonialist, imperialist propaganda made to erase the successes of billions of non white people who would likely be dead without communism and steer ignorant, budding leftists back into bourgeois individualism and DEATH

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus -3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Edit2: and just to be clear the fucking title of the video is inflammatory and condescending to MLs and communists.

That is genuinely wild

I responded to the title and the premise of the video with less vitriol than the title itself

No you didn't, you have been way more vicious since minute one, and the actual video is extremely gentle, even to a snake like Bad Empanada

it is colonialist, imperialist propaganda made to erase the successes of billions of non white people who would likely be dead without communism and steer ignorant, budding leftists back into bourgeois individualism and DEATH

That's a stretch

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 5 points 3 days ago

That is genuinely wild

I'm sure many things really blow your mind

No you didn't, you have been way more vicious since minute one, and the actual video is extremely gentle, even to a snake like Bad Empanada

BE is a piece of shit and deserves vitriol, just like every other counter revolutionary who parades around trying to build an audience on miseducating people who are sincerely trying to find a path towards a better tomorrow

That's a stretch

it isn't a stretch for your to double down on your commitment to perpetuating anti-communism, you are certainly right in the same lane as all the other anti-communists

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus -5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

We're not gonna engage with you if you're condescending to us. Lose the attitude and then we'll talk. I've been willing to talk to others in this thread and MLs in the large, so it's you, not us.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

check my edit of the previous comment, I didn't have an attitude, they did. you are all as worthless as your ideology, lying and victimizing yourselves when you can't refute material reality

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

I think you forgot some stuff:

https://hexbear.net/comment/7367354

I don't need to watch a 2 hr video of a white man with a trust fund filming himself talk from his estate to refute the blatantly false title that appeared on my timeline. Ive already spent years working with anarchists so I am intimately familiar with white people with trust funds making stupid arguments to justify doing nothing to stop the system them benefit from

Yet somehow if it was a white man in a nice house (which btw he lives in a polycule IIRC, i.e. he's not that well off and he's sharing his house with a few people) telling you things you wanted to hear about socialism, you'd eat it right up. I somehow believe you object to the message and not the messenger.

https://hexbear.net/comment/7367348

Yet you have nothing to refute it besides a dogmatic commitment to an ideology. My commitment is to liberation of all people and the earth and I understand that the only way to get there is through evidence based and material analysis. If you could provide that I would be forced to update my analysis but all you can do is deny deny deny

Because by that point you had already been super rude and they had given up on convincing you.

https://hexbear.net/comment/7367483

No you are just here to perpetuate reactionary ideologies that are inherently bourgeois

I could say the same thing about you. I'm not gonna say those things because I know you're fighting for liberation in the best way you know how, but I could say that.

Also from what you posted:

The only "roadmap" anarchists have is being hedonists until capitalism makes most of the earth unlivable, which will certainly bring a type of anarchism to the last survivors of the earth, but will unfortunately be the mad max kind

An uncharitable person would say that this is anti-anarchist slander. A charitable person would say you're uninformed.

you are all as worthless as your ideology, lying and victimizing yourselves when you can't refute material reality

Yeah that's really gonna help patch things up.


Were my comrades over on db0 all super supportive and free from attitude? Absolutely not. Understandable that you'd yell at them. But to then bring that attitude over here? Not cool.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Wait what does living in a polycule have to do with not being a trust fund kid. I know some disorganized tech- and academia-adjascent leftists that all live in a "commune" (a very expensive Craftsman house in that they bought in a hip neighborhood) do I need to consider them to be poor now?

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Wait what does living in a polycule have to do with not being a trust fund kid

I was arguing against Anark being a rich kid solely from his demeanor and the part of his home you could see from his camera, which I think Jabril is pulling from. Like he probably lives in a decent house because he's in a polycule, i.e. lots of people living together in a shared space, so the whole polycule can afford a bigger house by pooling their resources.

He could very well be a trust fund kid, I dunno 🤷

I know some disorganized tech- and academia-adjascent leftists that all live in a "commune" (a very expensive Craftsman house in that they bought in a hip neighborhood) do I need to consider them to be poor now?

No lol polycules and roommates can be poor, but they're probably saving some money over living in separate houses, so they might not individually be as wealthy as their house otherwise implies.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 5 points 2 days ago

Polycules are romantic relationships so if anything they will explain cohabitation despite being a trust fund kid. It's also not coincidental that lefty cult leaders are often (1) personally wealthy and (2) live on the compound with their harem, though I don't know it care enough to figure out if this particular grifter is also abusive. I don't know actually anything about this person except that they put a lot of effort into a basic aesthetic, their way of speaking and presenting themselves, and that they make poorly thought out bad faith left punching videos, but the logic around living with a polycule just doesn't make sense.

If you have ever been poor you can see the show being put on. If you've organized in left spaces you've encountered the loud ignorant white boy sectarian, and certainly those who place aesthetic over substance.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I didn't forget those things, I didn't include them because they weren't relevant. You accused me of

You merely screamed that it was garbage and got yourself thrown out of an anarchist space for being toxic and anti-anarchist.

and I showed how my initial approach was indeed not anything close to that. you made something up to justify your preconceived opinion because you have to do so in order to stick to your ideological convictions. this is liberalism, based in idealistic nonsense. how I behaved beyond those points felt like an appropriate shift in demeanor in response to the way the other posters responded to me

btw he lives in a polycule IIRC, i.e. he's not that well off

he-admit-it

But to then bring that attitude over here? Not cool. sorry it wasn't cool man, you know what also isn't cool? being a willing participant in an ideological lineage that completely rejects the evidence based path of struggle towards actual liberation of humanity and a future free from class structures and money. being more dedicated to stopping the people who are accomplishing that on every metric that can be measured, than to stopping the evil pedophiles who are destroying the planet and everyone on it. being so steeped in fascist anti-communist rhetoric that you can cognitively dissonance yourself into thinking you are actually a leftist instead of a tool of imperialism

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

and I showed how my initial approach was indeed not anything close to that.

No you didn't

You brought up the drama. I would've kept my mouth shut if you just dunked on the video and left it there. You decided to tie it back to the drama on db0. I even waited a few days to post it here in the hopes that the drama would die down.

being a willing participant in an ideological lineage that completely rejects the evidence based path of struggle towards actual liberation of humanity and a future free from class structures and money. being more dedicated to stopping the people who are accomplishing that on every metric that can be measured, than to stopping the evil pedophiles who are destroying the planet and everyone on it. being so steeped in fascist anti-communist rhetoric that you can cognitively dissonance yourself into thinking you are actually a leftist instead of a tool of imperialism

🧱 Not gonna budge until you stop being shitty to anarchists. Literally not even a single inch.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I even waited a few days to post it here in the hopes that the drama would die down.

like even this, why is it always some stretch of reality? I posted on that other thread in the last 24 hours.

I know you aren't going to budge, as I've said elsewhere, I have spent literally years organizing with anarchists. over the whole period with hundreds of them, working together for thousands of hours. I know anarchists won't budge because the commitment to self interest is greater than that to the collective. plenty of anarchists move through that phase as they get educated but I know that many won't because it means they have to put other people before their own interests. this is why it is inherently bourgeois

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

like even this, why is it always some stretch of reality? I posted on that other thread in the last 24 hours.

I misremembered, it was a day, and since you're not the center of the fucking universe, I wasn't paying attention to your particular drama, I just knew that there was drama, and hopefully it would be cool to post it, I even tried not to crosspost it, but I guess PieFed fucked me over there.

I know you aren't going to budge, as I've said elsewhere, I have spent literally years organizing with anarchists.

No, you misunderstood. It's not that I'm not gonna budge with respect to MLs, it's "I'm not gonna budge for you, personally, Jabril." And not just ideologically, but fractally, at all levels of zoom, I'm not budging until you treat me like a human being.