this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2026
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[–] miz@hexbear.net 42 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This was another very difficult question I had to ask my interview subjects, especially the leftists from Southeast Asia and Latin America. When we would get to discussing the old debates between peaceful and armed revolution; between hardline Marxism and democratic socialism, I would ask: “Who was right?”

In Guatemala, was it Árbenz or Che who had the right approach? Or in Indonesia, when Mao warned Aidit that the PKI should arm themselves, and they did not? In Chile, was it the young revolutionaries in the MIR who were right in those college debates, or the more disciplined, moderate Chilean Communist Party?

Most of the people I spoke with who were politically involved back then believed fervently in a nonviolent approach, in gradual, peaceful, democratic change. They often had no love for the systems set up by people like Mao. But they knew that their side had lost the debate, because so many of their friends were dead. They often admitted, without hesitation or pleasure, that the hardliners had been right. Aidit’s unarmed party didn’t survive. Allende’s democratic socialism was not allowed, regardless of the détente between the Soviets and Washington.

Looking at it this way, the major losers of the twentieth century were those who believed too sincerely in the existence of a liberal international order, those who trusted too much in democracy, or too much in what the United States said it supported, rather than what it really supported -- what the rich countries said, rather than what they did.

That group was annihilated.

—Vincent Bevins, The Jakarta Method

[–] blunder@hexbear.net 18 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I have been weighing reading this book but I am apprehensive that it is just going to be unrelentingly depressing with no further takeaway than "here is all the times the capitalist system won, and here are how many it killed"

Am I off base?

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 32 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Kind of? I found it more...not sure what the word is, filled me with a sense of "this is what they will do (the capitalists), there is no level they want stoop to, which means we have to stop them." It more made me angry at capitalists than sad about failed revolutions.

But either way it's important to read and educate yourself on why certain movements failed, in order to avoid making the same mistakes.

(And seeing your other comment, I'm in the same boat, weapons are borderline impossible to get in my country, but that doesn't mean it's truly impossible, it's only impossible if you're playing by the rules the capitalists set specifically to try and prevent you from defending yourself and others.)

[–] blunder@hexbear.net 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Me facing federal weapons charges:

phoenix-evidence

it's only impossible if you're playing by the rules the capitalists set specifically to try and prevent you from defending yourself and others

Jk thank u for your perspective

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 18 points 4 days ago

Yeah, it isn't something I look forward to, but I wouldn't trust anyone who is eager for revolution. It's going to be awful and bloody, but the capitalists leave us with no choice other than revolution or complete subjugation.

[–] LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins@hexbear.net 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I mean you can still take away important information from all the times capitalism won

[–] blunder@hexbear.net 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Can I do it for 300 pages without wanting to turn the first weapon I see on myself? That's the question lol

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago

Oh yeah, yourself will be the last person you want to be pointing a weapon at.illegal-to-say